OT: Have you never ever ...

[Fredxx]

Have you asked your animals the same question? I'm sure you can incarcerate them in conditions you would call pleasant. But it's still prison.

More denial.

When your argument end with abusing those around you, you've effectively lost the argument.

You exploit pets in your household. The fact you now deny owning a dog demonstrates you are suffering cognitive dissonance.

The only indoctrination here is from your fellow fanatical vegans which you've taken onboard, hook line and sinker.

Your desperation shows, please get help.

[T i m]

<snip>

All of which indicates to me the extra 'stuff we put these 'extra (not here naturally) animals though, that wouldn't happen if they didn't exist in the first place (to the extra ones, animals still get ill / injured 'in nature' of course but that is the definition of 'naturally'.

Extra in that most of them are 'man made' (catching / farming / breeding etc) and so extra to what might be there 'naturally'.

And it's not beyond all levels of imagination to think that at some point in the future, we won't be doing with animals what we do now, both because of the ethics and the practical implications (required resources / waste / animal cruelty etc ... and yes, that includes pets).

The vegans are just doing it already (and yes, that (unfortunately) includes 'rescuing' livestock / animals from cruelty / death where practical / possible and allowing them to live out their natural lives as naturally and enriched as practical / possible).

Cheers, T i m

p.s. If you were to try to justify any form of 'animal racing' where the animal has some form of jockey on it's back, maybe it could be any species that *naturally* carries say it's offspring on it's back, like monkeys. Or kangaroo racing where the jockey goes in the pouch. ;-)

[#Paul]

Quite common round here, that.

#Paul

[ARW]

Maybe Findus made a better offer for it.

[JNugent]

Or the Tesco butchery department?