I haven't, or I may have been dragged into the company Grand National sweepstake but I was never interested in watching it or the outcome.
That's not completely true, I always hoped it ended up without any horse fatalities or injuries (typically leading to their slaughter, 'destroyed' ... as it wasn't 'cost effective' to spend any money on making them healthy again), risks to the innocent animals just because people like to treat them like a commodity or money making scheme? ;-(
Given the supporters of this cruelty can't actually go to the upcoming 'Cheltenham Festival' but will have to watch it on TV, what difference would it be (to them) if these were 'virtual' horses and races but (for the gamblers) have 'form' like the teams / players in any computer game like Football Manger?
And let's face it, 'some people' will gamble on anything [1], irrespective of the outcome or cost to themselves, their families (and in this case, innocent creatures).
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Cheers, T i m
[1] Again, never actively bet / gambled money on anything, 'it's a mugs game'.
Why then and never since? Nothing to do with this I shouldn't think:
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"Two years ago the Cup was rocked by the death of Cliffsofmoher ? who was euthanised in front of the grandstand crowd after the horse broke its shoulder."
I wonder if that was part of the entertainment for some, like in the Roman arena days? I mean those who support it must know of the risks? Maybe they are only interested in the risks to their winnings, I mean, they are only animals after all and they probably all enjoy their meat ...
Ah, so you must be one of those who don't care about animal exploitation and unnecessary death if you consider anyone highlighting it with such terms?
So here's something else that you clearly know nothing about: horses.
1) Horses like to race; that's what they do in the wild. So the activity in itself is not an unnatural behaviour for Dobbin although whether particular features of the sport are cruel (such as the whip, jumping, etc) I don't know.
2) It takes a while to train a horse not to throw its saddle off or to aaccept a rider on its back. If a horse breaks its leg, then it would need a splint and plaster immediately. No time to get used to it and Dobbin, being in pain anyway, would simply lash around trying to get the plaster off its leg. More pain and more lashing out.
AFAIK, once a horse is injured there's not much you can do about it; they don't make good patients. Trting to could be considered more cruel than euthanising it. Cost doesn't come into it.
Quite. I guess things like the lotteries where the money goes to good causes and assuming you enter on the understanding that's all you care about ... are a good_thing.
Ok.
Focused around 'money'.
Strange (when seen from the POV of those who don't support animal exploitation etc).
Again, 'strange' (the Xmyth thing). ;-)
Actually, giving your kids a cycle or skates (for xmyth) when it's summer make much more sense.
I don't think that's the whole story. I think they (in general) care about animal well being, it's just that they don't look into it, see what happens and think about that. I think they would care if they saw a horse suffering in a field near them, just that they have been indoctrinated to consider the injury and death of horses whilst being exploited in racing (for example) as 'collateral damage'.
Well, for those that are their mainly for the social stuff yes. But were it not for the gambling / money, do you think they would still run it?
I didn't mean horse meat, I mean 'meat'. I meant if they ate meat they
*obviously* don't *actually* care about animal welfare.
Ok.
Ah, so you don't care then. Glad we have that settled (that at best you are a speciesist).
Ok?
OK.
And why do you think I'm that then?
1) I don't.
2) If it's done it's done (in the rescue we get the dogs from) under good surgical conditions, full anaesthetic and with additional painkillers and follow-up veterinary attention.
3) It is often done to prevent health issues in dogs in their later life.
4) It's often done with stray / rescue dogs as a measure to prevent any more animals being born and needing caring for and to moderate any aggressive behaviour in male dogs for their own benefit.
Livestock on the other hand are often castrated to make them easier to handle ... especially on the way to killing them when still very young.
We don't as it happens (teach you to belive everything the trolls lie about) but what *is* the 'natural food' of a *domestic* dog OOI?
And I'm asking about the dogs that have lived with man for thousands of years, have lived off their scraps and evolved a digestive system different from their wolf ancestors, enabling them to digest starch?
They are not obligate carnivores like cats, they are omnivores like us and therefore like us they can live long and healthy lives on a balanced vegan diet. An omnivore doesn't *have* to include any particular foodstuff in it's diet, it just means that it *can* eat (survive on) a range of different foods.
Commercial dog foods often contain problems, likely to cause poisoning or cancer (often from contaminated meat content).
Horses don't do lying down well at all, muscle damage results in sort order = pain & organ failure => death
They 'can' be treated but they need to be suspended in slings (don't so lying down - see) and then usually they can't feed normally (can't walk about - see) so now you've got two problems, oh and then pressure sores from the slings and now you have three problems, they are flighty beasts at the best of times and so now you (may) have four problems, not moving around is likely to give increased risk of colic, and now you have five problems - did I mention lying down ain't good for them - so consider a long orthopaedic operation and risk the of anaesthesia (they also have a habit of deciding to not breathe whilst 'under') and that was only problems 1a & 1b ...
So on the grounds of humanity (& good welfare) euthanasia is usually the best option - for dobbin!
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(who is aware that things have moved on since he had to deal with such stuff but dobbin is still dobbin)
p.s. I know none of the above is likely to change any 'minds' but hey ...
Well, whilst that may be true, it's not really the point. ;-(
We know livestock can and do suffer broken limbs, most would agree that isn't acceptable and therefore should be even less acceptable under the name of 'entertainment'.
And ignoring the money involved in those forms of animal exploitation (racing) it tries to say it prides itself in how it treats the animals involved, whilst killing them in significant number in the process?
This was highlighted by the recent coverage of the two jockeys being photographed whilst sitting on the bodes of horses that died whilst in the process of being trained / exercised and the fact (from someone high up in the horse racing *industry*) as being 'the last thing they need' as they are already finding it had to justify what they do.
And even if a horse does make it though it's racing life span, it can then either look forward to being turned into pet food (after all, humans only like to eat baby animals) or sent to a rescue and hope they can fund the funding for it's food, care and veterinary treatment (that wouldn't be required if it hadn't been bred in the first place).
Take the money out of horse / dog racing and I believe it would stop overnight.
This should be funny .... from the bridge dwelling, horse eating Goblin ...
Bwhahaha .... yeah, what they do is get a pig on their backs and run and jump hurdles till they die or break a limb, you see it all the time on the nature programs!
No, what you are getting confused with (in your desperate attempt to justify cruelty and exploitation of animals) is horses having a run about on their own (with noting on their backs), at their own speed, in their own time.
Of course you don't (which is *some* truth at least).
So, not a sign to you that doing so isn't *natural* for the horse?
What, no 3 legged horses out there then?
Yup and especially *bad* if brought about in the name of (human) 'entertainment'.
See above.
Again, are you saying that no injured horse has eve been 'fixed'?
I'm sure they don't, as will many prey animals.
Of course. Please don't try to confuse me with you. I am already aware of all this and why I'm a vegan.
I went to a meeting of the Arab Horse society at Sandown park once. Those horses get more good treatment than the wives on the owners it seems from what I witnessed. Brian
They seem to call it 'being destroyed' in the game. It's like the trend of calling slaughter houses, 'meat processing plants'.
Quite.
And that's the pity. It seems that if you either ... haven't thought about it, then do, then carry on doing the same things or just don't think any of it is 'a problem' ... then why would you? ;-(
It's interesting to hear what some try to use as justification for exploiting and killing animals, little of it ever makes any sense, other than to them of course. ;-(
I also doubt the financial nous of anyone who thinks it is a matter of what's 'cost effective' that leads to the euthanisation of horses with broken legs which, even if the injury meant they never raced again, would still be worth loads of money at stud.
Well quite, including being ridden till they die of a heart attack or have to be 'destroyed' because of a broken limb probably. ;-(
It's not all the 'good bits' that is the main issue, or the quantity of horses / greyhounds that die each year in the name of 'entertainment', it's just one of the things that needs to stop (and is stopping re dog racing to some degree).
Of course we start first with what is the biggest problem (for them and us), 'live stock' because it causes the greatest quantity of problems for both parties (all animals, inc the human ones) and ironically, is the easiest one to fix by simply not supporting it (by not buying animal based products).
We both went vegan last January, recently had our 'MOT' / checkup type blood tests (when I specifically asked for all the vegan / B12 tests) and they both came back 'normal'.
Our only regret is we didn't do so sooner ... but we like many, needed our eyes opening to the truth of what actually goes on behind the scenes and a world that is becoming more aware that 'plant based' is the only way to go, making all that much easier.
But what percentage of all the potentially viable but injured 'stud' horses ever get that far, compare with the ex winners that managed to survive intact?
And what percentage of those injured whilst racing that end up being 'destroyed' are geldings or (spayed) mares in any case?
Whatever the answer, I'm sure humanity, especially in 2021 can do without all of it.
Oh, Cliffsofmoher is the *horse*! Reminds me of a cartoon showing a groom running up to a woman: "It's all right; the horse is OK; unfortunately we had to shoot your husband!"
And that would be funny (as funny goes) because unless the (presumed husband) jockey was coerced or someway mentally deficient / forced to ride the horse, it would have been his *choice* to do so.
The horse would have had no such choice of course and further would have had to be 'broken' [1] to have made it possible in the first place.
Cheers, T i m
[1] Or whatever term they may have for it these days that tries to hide the truth of that process.
Only in a fanatical vegans mind. Some of us care about animal welfare and support bans of certain types of slaughter. You don't and are happy for no change.
You eat plants, that makes you a speciesist too.
It's done for people like you.
I eat meat, the slaughter is done for me, so that would make it ok in your eyes too.
If those conditions are good for your dog, then why not support similar practices for the slaughter of animals?
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