OT - Driving ban appeals process

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Posted here as well as ULM for extra coverage/advice..

Not me and I am struggling to get the entire story, but looking for advice on behalf of....

The court is in Carlisle, he lives in Middlesbrough.

Three points on licence from 2018.

Then a series of three speed camera flashes more recently which would normally take it to twelve points, except he did a speed awareness course for the last time flashed. He suggests he was recorded as just over the speed limit in all three occasions. He says the DVLA site says he has 9 points on his licence, plus a code for the speed awareness.

He failed to get the summons to court and they banned him for 6 months. As his ability to drive was crucial to his job and the salary crucial for his family, he has appealed and has a court date 14th October -to plead for his licence back.

He will be armed with a letter from the company he works for, saying how valuable an employee he is to them, plus his own letter explaining how much damage a such a ban and loss of income would do to his young family.

He doesn't have a solicitor, cannot afford one - will a duty solicitor be provided by the court when he gets there to help him represent himself?

Why with 9 points on his licence did he get a ban, I thought it was 12 before a ban?

Any other advice please on his situation?

[Adrian Caspersz]

Why did he fail to get the summons? Ignored it?

[Clive Arthur]

<snipped>

'Just over' is pretty unlikely, so he's probably not to be believed about the rest of it.

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Adrian Caspersz was thinking very hard :

I would guess that he was spending lots of time working away far from home.

[Fredxx]

I thought they are valid for 3 years and stay on the licence for 4.

I thought there is no right to a duty solicitor and they are only available for offences with a sentence above a certain scale.

I thought it was 12 too. The court does have discretion.

Perhaps some letter from his children on saying how they can't get to school and go to their ballet or other lessons because they can't get there and after losing his job Universal Credit won't go far.

I would have thought the company could pay for a solicitor and they could take it out as a salary sacrifice, if that would help his finances?

[Andrew]

And if having a driving licence is so important, why did he not take (a LOT) more care after the previous 9 points ?.

One less car queuing at a filling station ...

[The Natural Philosopher]

They don't even bother until at least 10% over

[Robin]

"Did not receive" or "did not bother to do anything"? May matter if he is seeking sympathy.

Summons to court for /what/ precisely? (I assume a fifth offence on top of the 4 you list but details matter.)

I assume he is pleading mitigation, not contesting the offence, but still worth knowing what evidence he's had - e.g. any photos or police statements.

He can /ask/ for advice but IIRC he's only /entitled/ to it if charged with an offence that carries the risk of prison.

He /had/ 9. That's (probably) why the police prosecuted hom for his latest offence. He collected 3 or more for that. Bingo.

His best (only?) hope seems to be to plead "exceptional hardship". For which he needs hard evidence. Loads of advice online on that.

But I'm glad to say the courts seem to be taking a less generous approach to that than in the past.

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Robin submitted this idea :

I don't really know yet.

I have passed on the bits I have managed to get out of him so far.

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Fredxx expressed precisely :

He said the 2018 points go off next February.

[Robin]

Not much of a saving - only on employee NICs - as the advice looks sure to be a /taxable/ benefit (Rendell v Went). (NB HMRC don't accept legal advice is covered by the exemption for welfare counselling.)

[Fredxx]

A distant acquaintance often drank and drove. He worked in the city and would use the train to work each day.

His simple comment is that if he was caught his wife would then have to drive for the following year. That and the likelihood of him not being caught meant the consequences were hardly serious.

I would like to think that someone whose family was reliant on the bread winner working and providing for the family would be treated more leniently.

Perhaps this case is different, as the OP's friend has had many chances to mend his ways. However speed limits can be deceptive, especially in areas where the speed limit changes and there are no 30mph repeater signs to indicate the new speed limit. It's why I use nearly always use a satnav, so I can see at a glance the speed limit.

[JNugent]

I'd have thought that not getting the summons would have formed a major part of his case.

Any offence for which an endorsement may be ordered may also attract a disqualification (if the bench think it serious enough).

[JNugent]

Then they should have ceased to count for totting up last February.

I've never understood what "good" came from the rule change which kept them on the licence for another year after they run out.

[Fredxx]

I was going to say that link was very helpful, but after reading: "It was contended on behalf of the Crown that the whole of the sum of £641 was an expense incurred by the company in or in connection with the provision for the Appellant of a benefit or facility, and that this sum was accordingly to be treated as a perquisite of his office as a director of the company, and included in the emoluments thereof assessable to Income Tax."

The significance is that this party was a director. If the OP's friend is a director then, as you say there may be little saving[1]. If not then I would still contend that voluntary payments made to a solicitor would not be a perk and so taxable.

[1] The saving would be Employers and employees NI. If on tax credits the gross income would not take into account perks such as these.

[charles]

Rather than you talking to this group, he should contact the Citizens Advice Bureau.

If he speeds after a Speed Awareness Court, I think the points which that covered will go back on. The course obviously didn't work.

[Chris Green]

If there really are no 30mph repeaters and there's no street lighting then there's no speed limit (other than the national limit).

[JNugent]

I had offered no advice save for the implied point that if the defendant did not a receive a summons in respect of a case where he was found later guilty in his absence (because not aware of the hearing date), there's a rather obvious Natural Justice aspect to that.

CAB?

Not so sure.

A savvy solicitor, familiar with the issues and processes, would surely be better?

[Fredxx]

Correct, but my thoughts were more where a 40mph limit signs were removed in a built up area.

[Chris Green]

Same applies surely, no repeaters = national speed limit.