OT. Anyone using HMRC PAYE software (bit of a rant).

[Nick]

Good afternoon folks. I'm self employed and employ a couple of chaps. I operate a PAYE scheme. In the past this was done manually using books and various sheets of paper, not computer based. All fairly simple and straightforward. Then .guv decides that all returns must be made online. Fortunately they provide a bloatware prog called Basic PAYE Tools. Installed this and it worked tolerably well. As from the beginning of this tax year they, with unmarried parents, have decided that RTI (real time info perhaps) is a necessity and have provided another bloatware prog called BPT-RTI. A really catchy name. So I install this. It is a bloody nightmare. After innumerable hours 'trying' to talk with .guv, 0845 of course, I eventually got to speak with a person that spoke English. A result, methinks. Response verbatim after 20 minutes 'we are working on improvements to your experience' !!! It just does not bloody well work and why the hell should I purchase 3rd party software or employ an agency to do the payroll for a couple of blokes? Life is hard enough and if I had ever wanted to be a taxman (spit) I would have chosen another lifecourse.

Said prog is fully updated. Trying to send a return online this afternoon using .guv's own sw I get the message 'You cannot send your P35 and P14s online from this version of Basic PAYETools.' BAH, so .guv requires online submission but will not accept data from the prog that it has provided for the purpose. This makes me so bloody frustrated. I'm considering parting company with my two chaps. This is very unforutnate and not a step that I would take lightly. One of them has worked in this family firm for over 40 years. I could then either remain self employed and employ sub-contractors or just pack it in and go on the dole. Bloody nightmare! Please excuse my rant. Nick.

[Clive Page]

That sounds par for the course for the Inland Revenue (or whatever they call themselves this year).

For some reason I have to fill in a tax return every year, and about 10 years ago they brought in a web submission system, which I thought would save a day of doing calculations and form filling. Their online system was awful in the extreme: just an example was that dates had to be entered in a variety of different ways, sometimes day-month-year, sometimes month-day, sometimes year-month-day. And naturally the same info had to be entered over and over again. I finished it eventually with a lot of tearing of hair etc. in not much more time than it took to do it manually in the old system. But I also sent in to their support service an email with a full description of the elementary errors they had made in the hope that they would respond and even fix all the bugs. I never got any response at all, and next year the program appeared almost unchanged. I've gone back to paper forms ever since and will do never attempt the online system unless it becomes compulsory.

I appreciate that you can't do that - I suggest you contact your MP. They are often the best way of getting action from stupid officialdom.

[Brian Gaff]

All I'll say is you are not the only one. I cannot recall where but I read this somewhere else and also heard it mentioned on a phone in. I suspect that they know only too well they have cocked it up, so I'd be tempted to keep all records and send them an email and probably a recorded paper letter telling them you will comply when they make it possible to do so.

Half the time they release these things before they have been tested, just like everyone else.

Its a lack of time and quality control in my view. I'm sure if they took you to court they would be making fools of themselves. The system has to work surely?

Brian

[Nightjar]

Work out how much that is going to cost you in statutory redundancy pay, then compare that to what your accountant will charge to do the PAYE for you.

Colin Bignell

[Nick]

Thanks Colin, I have done that already. The advantages far outweigh the costs. This not only in monetary terms but also my time, stress and fg factor. The only reason I have not done so already is loyalty to my employees. I am not a tax collector although I have performed this 'duty' for many years. This recalls a line from a Python film. What have they ever done for us? I think the modern day response would be quite little. They don't maintain roads properly, the education system is chaotic, the NHS is a shambles (despite the best efforts of honest hardworking people within), policing service is not good for much, promises made are obfuscated, taxes rise, military services are but the merest shadow, the burden upon the taxpayer becomes ever greater etc etc etc. Disregarding guv statistics, tell me some good stuff that any recent guv has brought about. Some things that actually benefit the man in the street, Joe Bloggs, Tommy Atkins et al. Meanwhile, folk on the other side of the fence become more corrupt, richer and fatter. Sorry, still ranting. Nick

[Owain]

There are other payroll systems, some of which operate online and are free (advert sponsored) eg

Owain

[Tony Bryer]

I've been struggling at 10,000 miles distance to help my sister navigate the new HMRC system for the family business (paying my mum a few hundred pounds each month) and it sounds like it was sponsored by some accountants' trade body to push business their way.

Two areas in which UK government did (IME) do a really good job with IT in the period just before I emigrated were online retaxing of cars - no more queues at post offices with docs - and Companies House online filing (they halved the filing fee when they brought it in) and near-instant online retrieval of filed company documents for a nominal fee. But I am serious frustrated at not being able to use the free online tax return to declare my UK income (zero) as I'm non resident.

[Dave Liquorice]

Except that regular trade brought monthly footfall into post offices and I expect a small cut of the tax for colleccting it. Contributary factor in small PO's closeing?

[Huge]

Small POs generally didn't do car tax. And IME, given the levels of "customer service" offered by most POs, they deserve to close. That glass wasn't there to keep the robbers out, but to protect the staff against enraged motorists who were being turned away when trying to give taxes to the Government.

[polygonum]

So, so much could have been done to ensure that POs provided more of what people wanted.

In relation to so many government departments which require documents be sent, some way in which they were automatically given tracking (albeit at some charge, somewhere) would have made so much sense.

And how many years before you saw a magic money machine in a PO?

[charles]

whether sub-post offices sold road tax was not their decision but one made by The Post Office.

[Tim Streater]

Are you talking about a main PO (run by The Post Office or is it Royal Mail?), or the corner shop PO, run by the person who owns the shop?