Anyone using Hive?

I want to change and resite our present programmable thermostat with a wire less type. The one I have been considering is not all that much cheaper tha n the self install version of Hive. I was wondering if anyone has any exper ience of the system and can answer a few questions.
Is the system straight forward to self install? BG's website is full of dir e warnings that it needs installing by them or an approved and qualified in staller. Is it a case of them trying to drum up business? From what I have seen of the installation information it looks pretty straight forward?
Are there any other on going costs involved? It seems to access with your p hone you need an "account" with BG. Is this access charged for other than y our phone usage? If free now is it potentially chargeable in the future?
Finally is it worth it or is it just a load of pretentious bollix and I wou ld be better sticking to what I was considering before and wait for some sm arter technology to emerge?
Richard
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On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 03:58:26 -0800 (PST), Tricky Dicky

Its worse than that, if (when) they close their server it will render your Hive useless. I built my own Smart thermostat https://www.flickr.com/gp/g3zvt/709c3u It's not perfect, but my mobile devices access it directly, no server involved.
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On 15/02/17 12:23, Graham. wrote:

HeatGenius can also function without a server too. I've been very pleased with their system and it is way more advanced than any of the others (in that it can control right down to individual rooms, though you don't have to).
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don't understand - is the a disaster if the heating comes on when no-one is home. versus letting the house get stone cold?
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On 15/02/2017 22:25, DerbyBorn wrote:

Exactly. It's a classic example of scamming the gullible that have been brainwashed into believing everything that comes through the mind-control box is truth and must be obeyed to lead a "happy life"
A more believable and useful concept would be being able to control the boiler temperature remotely not the room 'stat.... oh wait, that's already possible, fully automated without human intervention it's called "weather compensation"
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My Viessmann controller allowed you to set things for a holiday long before Hive was thought of.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 17/02/2017 11:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

So does my Honeywell programmable stat - which is fine if you know exactly when you'll be returning - but not very useful if you don't.
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I'd think not many go on holiday without knowing more or less when they're returning. ;-)
For Hive to be worth it for me, it would have to save its cost.
(Actually it would be useless, as I don't have conventional thermostats anyway. Both room and water have sensors which go to the boiler processor.)
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wrote:

I have on a number of occasions.

More fool you. What matters for most of us is if its useful on some occasions.
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On 18/02/2017 00:48, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

I'd doubt you could plan it to the hour - which is the point.

I'm not convinced at all about the cost savings of much of the IoT gubbins. If you rationalise it that way I think it's highly unlikely you'll adopt.
It's a convenience/gadget lust/bragging rights/techphile/high disposable income/curiosity/social-interactive thing of things.
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That is the point to me. BG are advertising it as something they install and you rent from them. at 9 quid a month. Or near 100 a year. That quite a lot of gas.

I love gadgets. But ain't going to buy one I really can't see a use for.
Roger has certainly made the case for one in his particular circumstances. I was hoping others might say they find it very useful - for the things it is advertised for.
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On 2/18/2017 4:45 AM, RJH wrote:

I agree up to a point, but all of these things are getting cheaper and easier to use. It would be pretty straightforward for a boiler to connect to the wifi, so that you could check or change its state using an app. Surely modern ones already contain all the necessary processing power.
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On 02/07/2017 23:00, newshound wrote:

By the normal definition of 'holiday', most people know when they will be returning - and turning the heating on on the right day would be sufficient, so the Honeywell digital stat with holiday mode is fine.
But I use mine the wrong way round! Mine controls the heating in my holiday flat, and holiday mode would be used for when I am at my main home. I don't always know exactly when I'll be going back to the flat - so the remote control feature of Hive is very useful. It would also be useful for people working irregular and unpredictable hours - enabling them to turn the heating on shortly before getting home.
The downside of Hive cf Honeywell is that Hive doesn't contain any P.I.D. logic - so there's quite a lot of overshoot and hysteresis.

I think it would be difficult to make an economic case for buying a Hive unless you really did keep very irregular hours. I bought mine for convenience and the remote monitoring capability.
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Since we upgraded from a conventional timer and thermostat to Hive, we've noticed a lot *less* hysteresis: the inside temperature remains far more constant - apart from when the heat of the sun heats the house above the desired temperature, and central heating can't work in reverse (ice cold water in the radiators? :-) ) to cool the house down.
Looking at the Hive's records for yesterday, the temperature varied between a minimum of 22.6 at 0600 and a maximum of 23.2 for 1700-2100. That's with the Hive set to require 20.5 between 0530 and 2200 and 18 between 2200 and 0530.
The inside temperature as recorded by my weather station fluctuated a bit more because an afternoon peak (though still within a range of about 2 degrees) but its sensor is on my desk in a south-west-facing room (though shielded from direct sun) so the sun may have warmed the air in that room a bit more in the afternoon.
Looking at weather station figures for February, when heating by the sun is less likely to be an issue, I can see the temp has varied between 21.5 and 22 in three cycles over the period 0900-2200, with a gradual fall to 19.5 from 2200-0800 when the Hive has requested a temp of 18 but the house hasn't quite cooled that far before the next day's daytime programme began.
Maybe a Honeywell, with PID logic, can maintain an even tighter tolerance than +/- 0.25 degrees, as we had in the February figures.
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but you don't need an internet controlled device to do that
you just need a good quality static thermostat
tim
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Are normal thermostats are precise as that. With the static thermostat, we were getting cycles of about 3 degrees (+/- 1.5) through the day. I'd assumed that this was normal for mechanical bimetallic thermostats. No doubt a modern thermistor-driven thermostat, switching the boiler on and off by a little relay in the stat, would be a lot better - the same technology as Hive probably uses.
How accurate can the Honeywell with PID maintain the temperature, if it is better than Hive because that has "quite a lot of overshoot and hysteresis"?
Presumably any electronic thermostat can use whatever level of hysteresis that you like (user-settable). Is the advantage of PID that it can anticipate how long it will take for the radiators to warm up when the boiler is turned on and to cool down when the boiler switches off, and apply *negative* hysteresis to turn off the boiler *before* the temperature rises to the cutoff setting and conversely for switching in on when the temperature falls, to compensate for "radiator lag".
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On 16/07/2017 13:36, NY wrote:

Mechanical thermostats have a couple of degrees or so of hysteresis. Many seek to reduce that by incorporating "accelerator heaters" - resistors which warm up when the stat is in the ON state, causing the heating to be turned off a bit before the air temperature reaches the set point.
Hive doesn't even do that. The heating is only turned off once the set point is reached - so the hot radiators continue to increase the air temperature, causing overshoot. In cold weather, mine often overshoots by up to 1.5 degrees, then the heating is off for a long time while the rooms cool naturally before the heating comes on again.

The Honeywell is better because its P.I.D. logic causes it to cycle the heating on and off within the 'proportional' zone (a couple of degrees either side of the setpoint) with the result that it doesn't overshoot. Once mine has reached the setpoint, it just sits at that temperature, cycling the heating on and off as necessary. [It only displays the temperature to the nearest 0.5 degrees, so I suppose that there could be variations of up to + or - 0.25 degrees which wouldn't show up].

Sort of - see what I wrote above.
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Roger Mills wrote:

The Honeywell is also set up to prevent the boiler from short cycling.
Chris
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On 16/07/2017 16:00, Chris J Dixon wrote:

That's true - it has a configurable minimum 'on' time. I think the Hive has something similar, but you can't adjust it. At any rate, if you turn it on manually by pressing the button on the Receiver, and then try to turn it off again, it stays on for a minute before actually going off.
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Interesting that your Hive gives you such a large amount of overshoot. For me, both Hive's own temperature sensor and the one in my weather station show that the temperature remains constant within about 1 degree (so presumably +/- 0.5 degree of the required temperature). I imagine Hive must have *some* hysteresis, or else it would turn on the boiler every time the temperature dropped by one unit of the required temperature and turn it off every time the temperature goes one unit over the required temperature - for whatever granularity "unit" the temperature sensor has. Since Hive reports temperatures to the nearest 0.1 deg, that may well be the granularity of the sensor, so you've expect the boiler to by cycling fairly frequently if (desired-0.1) deg turns it on and (desired+0.1) deg turns it off. Given that Hive allows temperatures to go wider (eg +/- 0.5 deg) that is presumably the amount of hysteresis that it built in, to reach a compromise between accurate temperature control and frequent boiler cycling.
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