OT: a very good review of the looming UK grid crisis

[The Natural Philosopher]

As against fancy models, Euan looks at precisely how much reliable capacity really exists on the UK grid, and how close we are to a blackout.

[Andrew Gabriel]

Last winter, the backup generators which power some large datacentres I know of (probably several 10's MW) were modified so they can backfeed the grid instead in emergencies. I presume the grid paid for this. I suspect deals like this have been done in many places. Would be interesting to know how much reserve power they can call on from this programme.

[David]

Interesting to know how it automatically switches over to feed the data centre if the grid goes down.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Its not trivial, but its not rocket science

Essentially all you have to do to put energy on the grid is to feed power into it at the right frequency but with a teeny bit of phase advance.

If the grid disappears, you are running your local kit, provided you disconnect the grid.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , Andrew Gabriel escribió:

It would, but I suspect we'll never know due to reasons of "commercial confidentiality".

Maybe a very general figure, but no detail.

[dennis]

That only works if the generators were over equipped in the first place or if you can turn off the data centre so the power is spare.

[Mike Tomlinson]

En el artículo , The Natural Philosopher escribió:

Looks an interesting site, thanks. Bookmarked for a closer look later. I get the impression, though, from a first look (probably mistaken) that he's not exactly unbiased.

You did point me at it when I posted a link to an article about renewable energy on el Hierro some time ago.

And he provides a link to Gridwatch, which I'm sure you have no objections to :)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Whooosh...

Oh dear.

Dennis, please stop revealing the depths of your ignorance.

Does the Sizewell C power station - or the solar panel on harry's roof

- have to be bigger than the whole grid, in order to put power into it, or reduce the load on the rest of it?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Euan used to blog for the Oil Drum.

Whether you think its biased or not depends on your POV.

I would say that he is, like me, trying to understand the real situation, ex of the renewable blatherskite put up.

This isn't some political mission so much as a deep and seriously worried concern for the UK grid.

WE came very very close to a 'all up' scenario a few weeks ago.

And we were exporting to France too. Its not just the UK, its the whole N European grid as well.

Gridwatch costs me money and time, I make nothing from it.

But there are maybe a dozen people - mainly engineers - who I have got to know online via that site, who use it for their own analysis.

Some of it sometimes gets back to DECC and the like. It makes a difference.

[Brian Gaff]

So as an all electric household with just blind ol me in it, what would folk reckon I should do to stay warm and able to do things if the worst should occur? I noticed for example when that storm hit a few days ago, not only did we have a power cut but the phone was off as well, completely dead as I suspect its powered in this area by the mains, its virgin. So that is a mobile phone and a hand crank charger for a start then. Brian

[David]

Can I interest you in an emergency backup gas supply (single use only)? [Grin.]

I assume for full resilience you would need a generator and bottled gas. You could even combine the two by having the generator converted to bottled gas.

This covers heating, lighting and charging the phone.

Not a cheap thing to set up and run, though.

Essentially you have to set yourself up in the same way as an isolated farm house with a dodgy overhead power line.

Full grid independence would involve a large tank of gas or oil to power all domestic services including a generator.

Not ideal if you are also paying for all the fixed services.

Cheers

Dave R

[dennis]

You are having one of your crazy moments again.

[Mike Tomlinson]

[top-posted for Brian]

I thought the cable companies had to guarantee 'phone service for a certain time in the event of power loss, to allow emergency calls to be made? If so, you shouldn't have lost service.

Is your Vermin landline 'phone one that needs mains power to work? A plain-jane POTS line-powered one might be an idea.

X-posted to uk.telecom

En el artículo , Brian Gaff escribió:

[Peter Andrews]

Virgin cabinets should have back up batteries, but they are known to get stolen, don't like freezing and cooking and are expensive to maintain. Complain bitterly and ask to see what records of maintenance are kept.

Peter

[The Natural Philosopher]

No, denis, you are?

[polygonum]

I thought Virgin, at least sometimes, were supposed to get power from the cable from the next-box-down-the-road - rather than having batteries. Certainly never noticed any batteries in any of the local cabinets - which so often have had their doors left banging about in the wind.

[harry]

What Dennis says is right. They can be run in parallel with the grid but if the grid fails then they have to be disconnected from the grid as they are far too small to meet the load.

[harry]

That depends how much money you have. There is no possibility of meeting an electric heating load with standby generator. A further thing to consider is how long the power cut lasts. For a few hours, go to bed to keep warm.

For longer you need an independent source of heat. Maybe wood burning stove (+wood) Or a a portable (propane)gas heater.

Camping gas stove to cook on.

Not sure how a blind person manages with these, especially if only used infrequently.

Make sure you have a phone that doesn't need mains electricity to function.

I have the above plus a small petrol generator for freezers etc.

You might consider self heating food, some has long storage life. Not cheap.

Realistically you are going to be dependent on some sort of outside help if this went on for days.

[hgww]

And could stop doing that if the alternative is rolling power cuts.

Its not just the UK, its the whole

[Graham.]

I doubt if that is the case, and even if it is, it rather supposes that the next box still has mains, and the outage isn't more widespread.