Hi all, we have a 1935 American Standard antique toilet which might
have a faulty seal beneath the flush valve (for pictures please see
http://www.picturetrail.com/toilet2006 /). The thing is that it is an
old toilet with brass (I guess) seal, instead of a plastic one, and I'm
not sure whether the size of the seal is different from the generic
seals that you could get from, say, fluidmaster. I changed the flapper,
but it still can not create a tight closure against the flush value.
Water still leaks down the drain (very slowly). For this kind of
antique toilet, could I still use say the Fluidmaster (fluidmaster.com)
Complete Repair Kit (model 400AK) or a flush valve to repair it?? If
not, what other options do I have to repair it?? Also, I think this is
a 3.5GL type of Toilet which is not conserving water, if I change the
Fluidmaster Complete Repair Kit, does it still flush with 3.5GL, or it
would become 1.6GL?? Thanks!
Its a one piece design so you can't easily just change the seat as with a
two piece toilet but since the repair kits are relitively inexpensive, I
would just get one and try. You can return it if it becomes obvious that it
is unusable. Maybe you can cut a rubber gasket and clamp it with the steel
As for the volume of the flush, that is a function of the size of the tank
and the shape of the bowl, which is not changing. The float valve will fill
the tank to the fill line regardless of how many gallons that is.
Look in some modern one piece toilets (in the store) and see if there is a
standard kit for them. Do you tiink the leak is between the flapper and
valve seat or the seat and the tank floor?
Thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate that. I looked at my
local Home Depot and also fluidmaster.com, couldn't find any standard
"one-piece toilet" repair kit.. I think the leak is between the flapper
and the valve seat (the brass ring), the valve seat is probably weared
out although it looks fine. I remember that I tried to wiggle the
flapper so that it would close more tightly with the valve seat (the
brass ring thingy), and at some point it worked, that the water stop
leaking into the bowl! Well, I'm hoping that I could find some type of
fluidmaster type of complete repair kit that I could repair it, and if
I'm really out of luck, I'm considering to buy either a Kohler Santa
Rosa (K-3323, one piece, $343), or a Kohler Portrait model K-3591
($427). As the bathroom was built in 1936 and we don't plan to remodel
it in the near future, I figured that if we are going to replace the
toilet, we might want to look into something more classic and the
toilet color should match with the bath tub and the bathroom sink.
Given that the trouble with one-piece toilet (harder to repair), should
I just go ahead to buy K-3591 ?? I know a lot of people like ToTo
toilet, but they don't carry toilet in "Seafoam Green" color, what are
people's recommendation about which model/brand to go for the toilet
(that's not too expensive, but has "seafoam green" color available and
has a classic look, and reliable)?? Thanks so much!
By the way, just a side question, I noticed that for the Kohler
Wellworth K-3423 (see
http://www.homeclick.com/showpage.asp?itemidV942 ) it has a oval
shaped base that attached to the floor, while the Kohler K-3591 has a
more square shaped base (which closer to my current old toilet), see
As my bathroom floor is tile, does this matter?? I mean if I take away
the old toilet, I would guess that it would leave out a squared shaped
floor, correct? So if I install a K-3423 (oval base), what would happen
to the floor?? Would it look really ugly?? Please advice, thanks!
Hopefully the floor is tiled up to the pipe and the toilet sits on top of
the tile. In which case just clean the floor and caulk to the new shape.
With a toilet that old, the floor may have been done any number of ways.
Try flapper valves with different shapes and material. Silicone or rubber
might work better than the other. You might be able to build your own new
valve seat using silicone RTV but you will have to have a very even edge.
Dear Pipedown, thanks so much for your reply, your idea is very
interesting. Could you please explain a little bit more about how to
built my own new valve seat using silicone RTV and how to make sure to
have a very even edge? Thanks so much!!
I was thinking you would simply take a tube of silicone caulk and lay a bead
right onto the sealing surface (with the tank empty and reasonably dry).
Getting it flat WRT the flapper valve would be the hard part and all I can
suggest is to use a very thin bead and not try and build up a thick ring.
Perhaps you can grade the wet silicone with a straight edge. At least you
can peel it off it dosen't work, even try a few times if it seems close.
Can't say how long it would last.
In the UK we are new to flapper valves and few plumbers know much about
them. I had a customer with a similar problem to yours with an old
cystern that looks rather like the one in your photos. My solution was
the silicone process but somewhat differently applied to the other
reply on this subject. Assuming the flapper itself is removeable I
applied builders silicone sealer (silicone that solidifies after an
hour or so) to the underside of the flapper and then (this is the
sneaky bit) rested the flapper on a piece of lightly oiled plastic
film. When dry pull off the film and you have a smooth and soft base
to your flapper.
If you can get to the top of the brass ring (seat) you could also dress
the ring VERY LIGHTLY with an abrasive paper, something like a wet/dry
silicone carbide paper used in car bodyshops, but only rub around the
ring (clockwise or anticlockwise) and not across the seat. You will
probably find that the seat itself has a slight grove across it which
will need to removed by rubbing the rest of the ring down to match.
Panistaking job but when done will work like new.
Dont throw out such a lovely old toilet. Items like this will soon be
worth money if the UK market is anything to go by. Old cast iron baths
with feet are now fetching in the order of 1000 uk pounds regardless of
condition. You might soon be sitting on a fortune!!
T. T. wrote:
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