One for the Electricians- 5A sockets

[Brian Reay]

While browsing the range of sockets available on Ebay, I noticed you can still buy the 'old' 3 pin 5A style ones. They are made by reputable companies so, I assume, still legal to install etc.

I've a vague idea these were at one time intended purely for things like table or standard lamps, but that could be wrong. Of course the plugs, at least at one time, lacked a fuse, and I assume they still do due to their size.

Are the sockets supposed to be on the ring main or a different circuit, protected by a fuse/breaker rated below the normal 30A you find on a ring main? If not, Is there something I'm missing re the safety side?

(I'm not planning to install any of these, nor do we have any, I am just curious.)

[Brian Gaff]

Well, are the sockets shuttered? Do the plugs have shrouded pins. I have some here which have neither. I'm using them for my speakers at the moment. Brian

[James Stewart]

just for the replacement market I would think ......

[Brian Reay]

As I recall, the old ones weren't. Don't know about the new made ones.

I'd thought of using them in the past for low voltage- specifically a couple of constant current charging lines to charge batteries for amateur radio kit but decided they were too bulky. In the end, I solved the problem another way.

Thinking back, I know someone who had a house built about 12 years ago and I'm sure I noticed they had some installed for lights. Knowing the person, it wouldn't have been accepted if not legal etc.

Next time we visit I will have to check and see if they know which circuit the lights are on.

[Brian Reay]

I thought that but I've remembered seeing them in a newish build (about

12 years old). The house was built to order and knowing the person, he'd have used only qualified / good people.

[James Stewart]

you see something like that in hotels for the cleaners hoovers ... never seen them in the thousands of new buildhouses I have given certificates of completion to ..... but you never know....

[tabbypurr]

They must be on 5A or 6A circuits, NOT 30A. Usually used on lighting circuits nowadays. They're not fused in the plug. Expensive for what they are.

NT

[ss]

I have some that are turned on with a light switch so they are on the lighting circuit, when I bought the house I was advised that some new houses were being built with these as part of the latest `fashion`. Apparently it stems from the old days when ceiling lights were not the norm and this enables the table lamps to be turned on from the wall rather than fumbling about at plug sockets.

[spuorgelgoog]

They are supposed to be on 5A fused circuits, and for domestic use sockets must be shuttered and plugs have sleeved pins.

I have 4 in my lounge for table lamps.

Owain

[Tricky Dicky]

It's mainly the 2A versions you see for the likes of table lamps, quite a few local pubs have them. The main use I have seen the 5A version is in theatre lighting rigs when I last had anything to do with them do not know if it is still the case.

Back in the day my college halls of residence only had 2A sockets to run a desk lamp, fortunately just outside my door was a 13A socket for the cleaner to use so I was able to run an extension from it.

Richard

[Tim Watts]

All sockets used in a domestic setting should be shuttered - 99% sure that's in the IET regs.

You cannot put unfused plug/socket combos onto a standard 32A ring (or radial). But you could put them on the end of a fused spur.

2A (and sometimes 5A) are commonly used for where you want a lighting circuit to control a table or floor lamp, which needs to be pluggable for reasons of moving for cleaning etc.

We used a 5A socket in our caravan for a 12V outlet - worked well.

[Archibald Tarquin Blenkinsopp]

I used them for a lighting takeoff. I wanted to add a PIR and flat panel to a false ceiling and the take off point was the original 2A breakered lighting CCT

As I think it mentions in the Wiki article, the main advantage is that the socket will not be likely to be used for anything else, thus overloading the breaker.

The plugs and sockets were marked with a BS number and were of a British make, but I do not have the details.

I assume the 2A, 5A and 15A sockets are pre-war, as I believe ring mains, thus Wilex fused plugs were only introduced post war.

Should these things be used for anything but mains, I would suggest adding a "key" to the earth pin to prevent 240V meeting something not designed for the Voltage, even if there is no other known mating receptacle on the planet.

AB

[Mike Clarke]

Back in the 1960s the standard for theatre lighting was 15A BS546 for fixed sockets or Strand (ref 185) 3 pin for inline connectors. From what I remember the pins on the Strand connectors were the same size as BS546 but arranged inline

or

The smaller BS546 5A plugs were however used on the Junior 8 dimmer boards which were popular in schools and village halls

or

[John Rumm]

I like them for wiring under and over cabinet lighting in kitchens - switched from the normal light switch location. It means you can complete and test the wiring before the cabinets are fitted, then later any lighting concealed behind pelmets etc can just be plugged into the relevant lighting circuit(2).

[John Rumm]

Yup still perfectly legal to use and install. Modern ones must have shrouded pins, and shuttered sockets though.

The 2A version - yup that was and is a common use. Having lamps powered by and controlled from a lighting circuit, but available to power stand alone lamps.

Yup, still unfused.

As with all sockets you will need as a minimum fault protection, and that fault protection will include protection for the appliance flex as far as the appliance.

So if fed from a normal 32A protected circuit, they would need to be powered from a fused spur. From a lighting circuit on a 6A MCB they will typically have adequate fault protection.

(overload protection typically imposed by the type of equipment connected)

Handy for things light cabinet lighting in kitchens I find. They can be installed out of site above the top cabinets, and then under pelmet and over cabinet lights plugged into them.

[Brian Reay]

Thank you, a most comprehensive answer!

As a said, I was just curious. I was actually looking for some face plates for something else and noticed them.

Having some sockets dedicated just for things like standard lamps etc may be a good idea now that home automation is becoming fashionable. You could run the cables back to a central point and have the control units all in one place etc., rather than having those plug in things that look rather untidy.

I've been looking at some dimmers (not related to the above) which will would with Alexa but they all seem to require a Live at the light switch, which of course most UK light switches don't have. There are alternatives but they are bulky and not easy to accommodate without access to the space above the ceiling.

[Brian Reay]

I added some Powerpole connectors to our motorhome. They are a very nice little connector, popular with radio amateurs and, I believe, some of the model car people. The larger Powerpoles are used in things like golf carts etc but the smaller ones are far more compact.

You can find them on Ebay. They come as a single connector, you slid two together to give +/- 12V for example and can be panel mounted or fitted to a cable. Once assembled to make, say, a +/- connector pair, they are polarised so you can't connect the wrong way.

See YouTube for more details.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

More likely where you want to be able to unplug a low current appliance for cleaning, etc. But if supplied by a ring, needs a fused spur feeding it.

More commonly for things like table lights from a lighting circuit. Using a 13 amp one there means the possibility of someone plugging in the wrong thing and damaging a dimmer, etc. Although 2 amp is more usual for this.

[Tricky Dicky]

All switches have a live feed, it's the neutral that is often not there. If the loop in is done at the switch then neutral may be found only if it is done with T+E.

Richard

[Brian Reay]

Sorry, you are correct, I had intended to type Live and Neutral- silly omission.

If I'm reading you correctly, that is probably something like how other countries do it. I think we've a couple like that, in rooms with wall lights.