Fischer - Free Heat

Just had a leaflet pushed through the door, with others, by the postie.
One from Fischer caught my eye - 1000 units (kWh) free electricity, with multiple Trustpilot claims to be valid, promising 'free heat'.
All they are is a wall mount electric heater and as we all know, they can only be a maximum of 100% efficient and you pay for all you consume. Nothing to be had for free, so how do they get away with such wild claims and claims to save you money on your electricity bills?
The only way to save on your electric heating bills, is to freeze, or switch to something costing less per kW. It suggests doing away with your pipes (I guess your CH pipes, from a gas boiler?), thus you pay 3x 4x as much for electric heat - how does that save money?
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 09:17:37 +0000, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It is a con aimed at the aged and vulnerable.
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David presented the following explanation :

I am well aware that it is a con, but why do Trading Standards permit such impossible claims?
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On 18/11/2018 10:06, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

It isn't impossible. Just pretty dodgy.
The deal is if you buy at least 3 of their "magyck" heaters *AND* transfer your electricity supply to them on their ripoff tariff they will credit your account with 1000kWh of "free" electricity that you have already paid for many times over for their overpriced kit.
It is sad that this sort of trick is permitted but I presume they have good legal advice on the wording and miniscule size of the font in the extensive footnotes. It is pretty much the same MO as the vastly overpriced "magyck" LED lamps claiming to cure blindness in the elderly.
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Might be worth investigating the trusted parts of it, but as I say, some good things can be done on off peak. also a friend of mine has a roof water based heating system which saves a lot even in quite dull weather. No idea how it works but I bet a plumbing leak on the roof would not be fun. Brian
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Sounds like a "Proper" solar heater that heats *your* water rather than an EV system that heats everyone elses.
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Graham.

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Which is why they advertise a lot on publications aimed at that demographic like “yours” . More concerning the same adverts often appear in freebie publications issued by councils who then in another part of these free mags warn older people to look out for dodgy traders, if anyone should not be encouraging these just on the right side of being legal claims then it is councils.
Often these people will still have a large house but now unoccupied rooms but still a basic central heating system with limited control for those rooms ,or they don’t know how to turn down radiators. Fischer come along install a room stat in each room and yes in some circumstances the energy bill will go down, as it would have done if someone turned down the radiators or fitted them with TRV s for a fraction of the cost of these heaters.
I got in into a discussion at agricultural show a year or two back where a salesmen was delivering the spell I pursued questions as to why these new fangled storage heaters which is what they are could be any more efficient than old style ones and that one Kilowatt going in cannot be any better between them or any other heating device though how it is let out again may vary. He changed tack and said it was the combined installation which had better thermostatic control than a basic storage heater to which my response was the price between std storage heaters and what they charged for these ones must mean that thermostats were made of precious metals and any one wanting similar accuracy would be better engaging an electrician to wire up some conventional heaters with some sensible placed thermostats from Screwfix or an electrical wholesaler and still save a packet. The audience was getting quite amused at his discomfort at his stage and he suddenly declared “ well sorry I have to go to lunch”.
GH
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Can any tell me how Freepost works? do the companies pay a flat fee based on an estimate of how many items are returned or is each individual item charged. If the latter then I will return the Fischer “Free heat “ leaflet that dropped through the letter flap this morning with a snotty message on it .
GH
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On 18/11/2018 09:17, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

Fischer make storage heaters, which save you money, though misleading to talk about "free heat". Are you sure the leaflet wasn't advertising these? (The only other way to get more out electricity is heat pump, but I don't think Fischer sell those.)
Did anyone see the programme about Nibe exhaust air heat pumps costing people thousands of pounds to run? (I think it was Rip Off Britain or possibly Watchdog.) I know that people aren't very technically minded, but the woman on the programme seemed to think that switching from gas central heating to electricity would save her money as "there wouldn't be a gas bill." For as long as I can remember electricity has been regarded as an expensive way to heat a house (referring to bar/convector/fan heaters).
Nibe blamed the specification/installation of the systems - though they didn't seem to have investigated this - and people not using it correctly - it appears you have to sit through videos that explain how to use the system.
https://www.nibe.co.uk/Products/Exhaust-air-heat-pumps/
I don't see how that sort of heat pump is going to save you money - just transferring heat from "exhaust air". Most people just use minimal ventilation in the winter so there is hardly any "exhaust air".
I would have thought that a ground source or external air heat pump would be better.
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Max Demian has brought this to us :

The leaflet didn't explain what they were selling in any detail - idea seemed to be to get you to contact them for more detail - then no doubt, you get the hard sell. It mentioned 'clay' and no pipes around the house.
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On 18/11/2018 10:16, Harry Bloomfield wrote:

"Clay" sounds like the stuff storage heaters store the heat in.
I don't know why they wouldn't talk about off-peak electricity being cheaper. Maybe advertising works better when they don't say what they are advertising.
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 10:24:00 +0000, Max Demian wrote:

Try running that one past Lord Sugar!
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 02:38:57 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gowanhill.com wrote:

HOW MUCH! £1727.27 each, even if you go way over the top on installation costs £500 each you still looking at £500+ more than th e modern high heat retention true storage heaters. That may actually save you money by not leaking (as much) heat during the day than conventional storeage heaters.

sit -

What no 50% discount if you agree to paying a 10% deposit now but I'll have to phone my manager to get approval...

a

I hope you've put her right and got her to cancel the order and stopped the cheque and/or contacted the card company. Hope it wasn't a Debit Card...
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 09:17:37 GMT, Harry Bloomfield

<snip>
I love all the TV adverts where they try to show you how much 'better' a new design electric heater is ... using thermometers showing how the 'core' continues to get hot after the power is turned off and how that means you get free heat / energy?
What I hate is that such adverts may trick those who don't understand basic science into thinking they really will save them money (and so should be banned).
The 'issue' could be that *they* don't actually state that you *will* save money, but might / could (which *could* be possible, depending on what you are using already and how suitable that is)?
Cheers, T i m
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On 18/11/2018 10:34, T i m wrote:

Like the smart meter adverts, that try to infer you will save money just by having one.
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On Sun, 18 Nov 2018 18:08:50 +0000, Chris Bartram

Which again you *might*, if you spend some time looking at the display and adjust your power consumption based on it?
During the winter I don't really care about how many things I've got running in the background because 1) we generally need them on (routers, access points, switches etc) and 2) any wasted energy goes towards heating the house.
But 'most people' don't have clue about what draws what. An elderly neighbour we look after now and again has two ceiling lights, each with 6 x 60W candle lamps. With both on that's 720W ... and if she turns on both of her floor standing uplighter pedestal lamps with (I think) 150W halogen strip lamp in each, we are now over a kW of lighting!
The uplighters can be dimmed but as we know, that doesn't do much towards saving power as they still need a fair bit of power to make them give of any light at all (below that they are *just* heaters). ;-(
So we replaced the 12 x 60W incandescent candles with 12 x 4W LED, she's happy with the light levels and the power / cost saving (~10p/h if my maths is right).
The LED lamps were 36 quid so assuming she has the top lights on for 6 hours each evening she should start saving in a couple of months (minus what it costs extra on her central heating)?
Cheers, T i m
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You mean turn down the oven so it uses less power overall? Not going to be much good for the intended use - cooking.
Or make sure things are switched off when not in use? Do you really need a smart meter to tell you that will save money?
--
*Few women admit their age; fewer men act it.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:37:50 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

Nope, I don't mean that. ;-)

Yup, I do mean that (sort of thing).

Do *I*? No. Do other people, *obviously* YES.
Have you never heard parents / husbands (typically) complaining of having to go round the house, turning off lights etc? If you had something that 'reminded' people of the current usage, they might bother ... or those who have no idea of the running cost of stuff might learn that it all helps or what helps most / easiest?
Like, how many people know the overall running cost of their car / mile? If they just pop up to the shops and back, what that actually costs them? That cost is pretty obvious when you are sitting in the back of a cab.
It's all about being able to 'manage what you can measure' and for many, the realisation of what consumes what only happens when they see it live in front of them (well, till the novelty wears off at least). ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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On Monday, 19 November 2018 16:21:51 UTC, T i m wrote:

I heard at the bus stop last week,
"I find the buses confusing. That's why I take a taxi everywhere".
Owain
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On Mon, 19 Nov 2018 10:33:10 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gowanhill.com wrote:

<rolls eyes, especially 'at the bus stop'> ;-)
Cheers, T i m
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