Notes from an eco house. (2025 Update)

Dec 28, 2024 Last reply: 1 year ago 177 Replies

I spent Christmas with a friend who has an eco house. The full 9 yards. Heat pump triple glazed, UFH with every room a computer controlled UFH zone with its own smart thermostat, solar panels and a batter, and heat recovery ventilation. And smart meters. Some of it is great, some of it not so much.



What is great is the level of insulation, the UFH and the heat recovery. HEPA filtered air is good for me, as is a totally even 19 degrees or so. There is no doubt that on a new build this is the way to go, although the active ventilation requires constant servicing to clean the filtration.And it can get stuffy.



What isn't so great is the heat pump. It works just fine. But it costs him more than the gas in his old Victorian property used to, due to the exorbitant price of 'renewable' electricity.



However he is arbitraging his smart meter, to make sure we, not he, pays some of the costs.



His (7kWh) battery gets charged up by either solar panels or cheap night time electricity and is fed back to the mains when peak demand is massive and the buy back price goes through the roof. This enables him to lower his electricity bills somewhat.



However this installation was not cheap. Nor its its TCO known yet. The overall impressions is of absolute comfort, but not really cosiness. If that makes sense. It was a bit soulless.



And trying to actually program the heating was something he simply hasn't mastered yet. It is so smart it make its owner look stupid.



This is information for those envisaging doing this themselves. The house was a new build about 5 years ago. The pre-existing house was demolished to build it.



I think this more or less confirms what I was leaning towards with experience of my own house.


+UFH good
+Multi zone control good.
+Mega insulation good. ±Heat recovery ventilation quite good, but active system is high maintenance ±computerised central heating controls with multiple zones with smart bollocks everywhere is quite good, if you can actually learn to program the f****ng thing. ± Solar panels plus battery plus smart meter does help with electricity bills, but the jury is still out on whether the capital invested is actually worth it.

- At current electricity prices, unless you are getting massive grants, heat pumps are a f****ng disaster. Not because of their technology, but because of the massive costs of 'renewable' electricity.



Electricity is 3-5 times the price of gas or oil per unit energy.



I hope this helps.



I haven't seen a decent new build anywhere. Despite a tour of the county a few years ago of at least 20 developments.

The fact that you can get companies to manage dealing with all the faults of new builds on your behalf speaks for itself.

5 of them could not be accessed by wheelchair. Despite being listed as accessible. Apparently "accessible" means "we have paid some people to say it is" not "we got someone in a wheelchair to confirm this".

As you were.

In message <vkooet$2h2mo$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me, at 11:46:37 on Sat, 28 Dec

2024, Jethro_uk <jethro snipped-for-privacy@hotmailbin.com remarked:

I agree with both of you. As does Lyn.

I think the previous owner built it. It goes beyond 'meets regulations technically

Yup. wheelchair access is a moveable feast

I think they'd have to repeal the second law of thermodynamics to fix that, unless they get all the people with gas boilers to subsidise the heat pump users - and cope with all the millions of people freezing to death as they can't afford to heat their homes.

Nuclear electricity will render heat pumps both cost effective first and then irrelevant, as electricity will be so cheap that spending money on using less simply wont be worth it...

Looking a some Youtube videos and there are quite a few saying how successful are ASHPs BUT the further you get into the videos you find that they have all also invested in 10+kW batteries which charge at a cheap off peak rate during the night to run the house/ASHP during the day.

If the grants were removed I'll bet the heap pump installation business would collapse overnight.

What I have yet to see is people posting about having a ASHP installation in a older terrace house which is the typical housing stock where I live, and for many miles around. I have yet to see people posting about operating costs where they haven't also invested in batteries, or solar to offset costs between winter and summer.

Err, that's what they said 70 years ago, and we are still waiting.

Humph.

a) Where would they put it such that it wouldn't annoy themselves or the neighbours. Such properties can be quite narrow.

b) Most such blocks of terrace would presumably also require all the downstairs floors taking up and being insulated.

We've done a number of things here - such as cavity wall and attic insulation, replacing the old boiler with a condensing one. The north-facing wall is hanging tile, and if you lift the floor on the inside in those rooms (next to the outside wall), you can feel the pointy ends of the nails that attach the battens to the 8x4 sheets of cardboard or whatever it is, that the tiles are hung on. The walls there are studwork and although insulated, its only with rock wool, not celotex, so the wind can go straight through. And under the floor, where the nails can be felt, there's no insulation. Previous owner did that bit of extension on the cheap.

No, that's not what they said.

Anyway the purpose of "power stations" like Chappelcross was the production of Pu239, the electricity was a by-product.

Actially they should use the roof space. would recycle any wasted heat

Many are suspended wood. A layer of concrete then massive foam then UOFH in screed would work well

At some level its worth going to a bare shell on some houses or even demolsihing and starting again. But most people move...

1/. 70 years ago the oil and gas intersts wanted to sell all their reserves to you first. 2/. That was said about fusion, not fission 3/. In countries with lots of nuclear and or hydro, it is already the case that a simple wire under the floor is cheap as chips and so is the leccy. 4/. in 2010 I was informed 'all electricity will be renewable, by 2020. I am still waiting. 5/. The fact of the matter is that SMRs are looking set to generate 24x7 electricity without batteries, huge long distance cables or any other gunk at a wholesale price of around 6p 6/. Fossil fuel isn't going to get any cheaper and nor are renewables.

Ah, yes where have I heard something like that before? Back in the 50/60’s nuclear generated electricity would be so cheap it would not be worth metering it and sending out bills. Well that never happened no matter how cheap it might be to generate as long as someone is willing to pay for it someone will sell it.

Don’t get me wrong I am totally in favour of nuclear generation and feel we are missing a trick here when you look at the likes of France but as is the British way will we ever produce enough power plants and be doomed to blackouts just because someone spotted a great crested newt where they are about to build one?

If the level of insulation and heat recovery is really great, there should be no need for under floor heating.

That makes no sense. I suspect there's something wrong with their calculations.

Plus the triple glazing - that has to be approaching Passivhaus. Should be possible to heat with very little energy.

Are you nodding off or something? That witticism has already been suggested in response to TNP's post and larfed at as irrelevant, relating, as it did, to

*fusion*.

As well as the Magnox station at Sellafield.

The problem there seems to be the same as with fusion i.e. nobody actually has a working prototype yet, and won't for some years. Presumably existing ship/submarine reactors are not suitable.

e.g. Google: "The initial phase of work is intended to bring Kairos Power’s first SMR online quickly and safely by 2030"

Rolls Royce: "The European Industrial Alliance on Small Modular Reactors aims to facilitate and accelerate the development, demonstration, and deployment of the first SMRs projects in Europe in the early 2030s."

"On 18 September, Czech Prime Minister Fiala announced that CEZ and Rolls-Royce SMR would enter a strategic partnership to enable the development and construction of SMRs in the Czech Republic. CEZ and Rolls-Royce SMR will work collaboratively on plans for the deployment of up to 3 GW of clean, affordable energy in the Czech Republic. CEZ and Rolls-Royce SMR will work to finalise contractual order terms for an order of the first unit with early works expected to commence as soon as 2025."

'Development' and 'Early works' sounds like being a long way from 'off the shelf'.

Each room with its own zone? the Designer has not got that right then. It's a perfect install for a totally open system. Having zones reduces any heat sources efficiency, as it is the on/off that causes more energy use.

Eh? Change filters every 6 months, or whenever they are required. Two minute job.

The Heat Pump is nothing to do with the higher bills. It should easily put out a SCOP of 4 if designed properly, for which, see above, this houses heating system has not been well designed. If a gas boiler was fitted, it would have the same result if the system has been designed badly, it will use more gas. The only way the bills should be higher is if the new property is a lot bigger, and the temperature is kept at a higher level than in the old house. He needs a consultant in to inspect his heating system to see where it is failing.

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