Neighbour's ch system

I'll let others deal with those questions - I think the answer is "sometimes, maybe, maybe", but I'm not sure.

This sounds dubious, why wouldn't the radiators cope with the new boiler?

It is no aberration - it has been policy for many years.

Sounds like total rubbish. Are you sure he didn't say *condensing* boiler ?

Also sounds like rubbish.

Could be true for various reasons, .e.g structure of boiler house. You can put the boiler in a garage, which would be similar. Simon.

That's good for a laugh.

They probably meant, or said "condensing" not combination.

Tripe.

More tripe.

They may be correct here.

Boilers come with highly flexible plastic flues, so easy to take the flue away from problem points.

See above. The flue can be taken away using plastic drain pipe.

Tell them to piss off.

It may be, but difficult to assess not seeing it. Doesn't matter as new boiler is going in anyway.

Don't. They are niot like the old Gas Boards, who acted in your interest.

Best they get a Keston Celsius boiler, which can be open vented and hence use the existing rads (when using a pressurised system the rads may pop), and the flue extended away from the car port using cheap plastic drain pipe. Also insist on a Magnaclean filter on the boiler return. Put desludger in the system, for a as long as possible before the old boiler is ripped out. In this case this may be impractical, so the magnaclean filter will grab the gunge in the system. Best run the opump without the burner on, then enmpty the filter after 2 hours. Then empty the filter after the first day of normal operation, then each week until clean and then once a year a boiler service time. A DIY job to clean the filter. Don't have a powerflush. Get a contractor to quote on that spec and tell him that is what he wants and nothing else.

Rubbish. He'll have to have a condensing one unless he meets the various criteria for exemption which have been discussed here previously. Condensing !=3D combi.

Maybe BG just don't (or cannot be bothered to) supply them, or no one makes them anymore?.

Maybe but I would get a 2nd opinion as to why not.

If the new system is pressurised and the old wasn't then you might get leaks, but they could be fixed.

I would read the instructions for the particular boiler to be fitted but whatever they say I, personally, would arrange to vent it somewhere else.

That bit is probably true (maybe the only bit that's true, LOL!)

MBQ

Its mostly Bollocks with an element of truth, advise them to get quotes asap from independent heating engineers.

????? its not april 1 yet is it.

Cobblers! In most cases it has to be a *condensing* boiler - which may or may not be a combi - but there's no compulsion to have a combi.

Why not?

Why not?

The new system will almost certainly be unvented (pressurised) and will show up any slight leaks in the pipework and radiators which may not have been apparent with a vented system. So it needs checking over, and an expert opinion sought. It certainly doesn't *automatically* need replacing. It is often sufficient to change the radiator valves - which are the most common source of leaks. There will need to be TRVs on all but one radiator, anyway. The system controls - programmer, motorised valves, room and tank thermostats will need to be checked for compliance with the latest regs - or even added if they don't currently exist!

If the radiators *are* suspect it would be worthwhile to replace them with finned radiators of a similar size to the old ones. These will have a higher output, and permit the system to be run at a lower water temperature, enabling the condensing boiler to run more efficiently.

Sounds a bit melodramatic! There *are* regs about flue positions relative to windows etc. but I would be surprised if a legal solution weren't possible.

Again, a bit over-dramatic!

That souds a bit on the low side for BG!

BG have a well earned reputation for persuading people to replace things which don't need replacing, and then charging sky-high prices for the privilege. If you still support BG after reading some of the posts in this NG, you must have had your rose-tinted specs on at the time!

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:09:28 +0100 someone who may be "Mary Fisher" wrote this:-

Incorrect. It is hard to avoid a condensing boiler, but that is a different discussion.

Incorrect. While many condensing boilers are wall hung there are others that are floor mounted, including the combined heat and power system that people like the gas board are offering...

Incorrect. There may be reasons to avoid such a thing, but even the Labour Party have yet to nanny people to that extent.

That rather depends on the system. The radiators may need to be enlarged if they are to make the best use of a condensing boiler, but that is a different matter.

The system may also need modern controls.

I'm sure they would.

Rather a lot of terminals face other houses.

I think it is an example of their policy for some time. After their last price increase, which was just taking the piss, a lot more have decided to give them two fingers. As a result changing from them is currently rather slow, which indicates that lots of people are doing it.

Some of their service staff are very good and let down by other bits of the organisation.

I didn't hear it but Spouse did and he knows the difference.

It was built as a boiler house, it was designed as a boiler house with all the necessary features. In fact it's far bigger than it needs to be to house a boiler.

The only drawback as far as we can see is the length water has to travel into the house.

Mary

All three of those statements are nonsense.

The only legal compulsion is to have a condensing boiler unless there are specific and defined extenuating circumstances which are fully described on the ODPM web site in the Building Regulations. From what you have described, these circumstances would not apply.

He may have become confused about the difference between condensing and combination boilers. If it was BG suggesting *combination*, then one would be seriously concerned.

There are certainly floor standing condensing boilers and floor standing combi boilers.

It is certainly possible to put one in an outside building, but pipes between it and the house need to be properly insulated as do pipes in the outside building. Frost thermostat etc. is needed.

It may be that there is not a way to meet the Building Regs requirements on flue siting with the building if the flue just comes out of the wall, although that seems unlikely. There are in any case, boilers with options to have long flues using 50mm plastic pipe. Basically it's a non issue. Of course, it's possible that the BG guy didn't know about these or have them in his catalogue.

It could be that they have deteriorated to the point that they are leaking? If one is, then typically the rest will not be far behind. Otherwise, it is a way to add cost to the job.

There are specific flue location requirements for car ports. If you look up the installation instructions for any boiler, you will find them.

However, long flue pipes get around this.

I bet they would.

That depends on the distances, but probably not. Perhaps he was looking for more business.

It's completely typical and always was. They are an ex nationalised industry and are still trading on past glories - i.e. people believing that they are in good hands with "the gas board". That was always untrue and still is. They did and do treat customers like dirt.

Eventually, although it may take a generation or more, people will realise what is going on and will shop elsewhere. Possibly by then, they will have altered their attitude, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I would suggest that you offer to your neighbour to bid as prime contractor on the deal and sub it to an independent heating engineer. You could come in well under BG's price and be able to pay for a nice holiday.

Rubbish. He'll have to have a condensing one unless he meets the various criteria for exemption which have been discussed here previously. Condensing != combi.

He accepts that he'll have to have a condensing boiler but neither wants nor needs a combi - he already has a storage cylinder with an immersion heater for hot water - which the chap said would have to come out :-)

Maybe BG just don't (or cannot be bothered to) supply them, or no one makes them anymore?.

Oh they do, I've googled.

Maybe but I would get a 2nd opinion as to why not.

I'd have asked that too. I suspect that the chap was making it up on the hoof, thought he'd got a sucker because neighbour is partly blind. He kept going on about his holiday home and his many holidays abroad - Spouse said he's probably on commission. Neighbour does't want to pay for chap's holidays!

If the new system is pressurised and the old wasn't then you might get leaks, but they could be fixed.

Quite. Or replaced as necessary.

I would read the instructions for the particular boiler to be fitted but whatever they say I, personally, would arrange to vent it somewhere else.

Well, ours has an extension to the flue to take it above the carport roof, there must be a distance of 300mm. Chap said that would only be possible if a whole roof panel was removed. Permanently. He hadn't mentioned a particular boiler ...

That bit is probably true (maybe the only bit that's true, LOL!)

Actually it turns out that it was a minimum.

And since it's not all necessary it's nonsensical.

Neighbour asked for a quote for a new boiler, that's all. He didn't get it.

Mary

I know that, you know that, neighbour didn't. But Spouse knows so now neighbour knows.

Neighbour didn't ask. I would have. But he kept saying that it was the law.

Neighbour didn't ask. I would have. But he kept saying that it was the law.

Actually, he had all those bits and pieces replaced fairly recentlywhen he was told by friends, in turn, that they were the reason for his heating problems. Not until Spouse made him feel thecracks in his boiler and showed his partner the leaks did he realise that it was something more fundamental..

O fcourse. He's prepared for that. But to be told that the new boiler wouldn't be able to cope with them and that by law they must be replaced is a different story.

Of course there is. But he doesn't even want his boiler in the kitchen or bathroom - I would but that's a different matter.

Plain silly!

:-)

BG have never done a job for us or supplied us with anything but I've always, to date, read similar horror stories with some suspicion of hyperbole. But believe me, if I'd had this experience I'd have made my feelings known, forcefully.

Mary

Yes.

HA! I didn't know they offered them :-) any more details, please? All grist to the mill.

Yes. neighbour inherited the house from his brother, who had the boiler house built because he was terrified of an explosion in the house! I'msurprised NL hasn't thought of that ...

Quite.

He has them.

Quite.

That's what I feel.

Thanks, - and to everyone who has confirmed what we believed and have since ascertained.

Mary

Spouse doesn't really want to do the job because we have too much on (and we don't want or need holidays) but if it comes to it he'll advise on and buy the chosen new boiler and install it up to the point of commissioning when a Corgi fitter would take over. I've got a list of ten such who live within a mile.

Mary

There is no such thing as "The Gas Board" and there hasnt been for decades.

Remove antispam and add 670 after bra to email

It would make a very good story for the local paper. Blind man exploited by evil BG salesman. AT the very least I would tell him to contact the RNIB or trading standards.

MBQ

Mmmm.... but doesn't it illustrate how long branding can be effective even without doing anything.?

One thing to watch is if a condensing boiler is fitted to an outside boiler house is freezing of the condensate drain. My boss has had 3 condensing boliers in 7 years all either corroded inside due to flooding or condensate leaked out into the electronics. Luckily for him done under BG maintenance plan so only paying £15/month. Finally last winter someone at BG finally said "this is not a suitable place for a condensing boiler, you will suffer freezing in condensate drain" and replaced boiler with a non-condensing one. This is the only winter in 7 years my boss has had reliable heating and hot water.

Many modern ones have a syphon arrangement that collects a certain amount of condensate then releases it in one go. I can see that the drip, drip, drip of those that don't might freeze, but the makers do tell you to use an oversize pipe externally.

It also tells you that the name means absolutely nothing but reputation is everything. Companies spend pointless fortunes on rebranding when it's actually the product that really matters. Who would have come up with BMW or Dyson ?

Andy