MS Security Essentials

I use Win 7, and MS Security Essentials as one of my two anti-malware systems (Malwarebytes being the other). Support for Win7 is ending early next year, and people are being encouraged to switch to Win10, which has anti-malware built in (some adaptation of Win Defender, AIUI). Having had the misfortune to encounter Win 10 in the recent past, and floundered with it, I have no intention of abandoning Win 7 if I can possibly help it).
But does it mean that MS Security Essentials will not be updated either, to keep abreast of fresh malware?
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Chris

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On 07/11/2019 14:17, Chris Hogg wrote:

Can I ask what problems you had with Win 10?

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wrote:

I just couldn't get to grips with it. It seemed so totally different to what I was used to. Bear in mind that I'm pretty amateurish when it comes to computer stuff. If I want to change any settings, I usually just stumble around in a sort of random walk until I get what I want, probably leaving a trail of chaos behind me to be revealed at a later date! But W10 seemed beyond me with that approach.
I got it to work up to a point, but I wasn't particularly happy with what I'd got or how it behaved. Too many things appeared unexpectedly, and other things didn't appear when expected. Can't give you any specifics - I just got pissed off with it. I'll continue with W7, and ensure I've got good AV software, kept up-to-date, in the hope of warding off any nasties. It's not as though W7 is new to the market - it's been around for a while, and I imagine most of the holes have been patched, and with luck most of the hackers will be working on W10 now.
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Chris

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On 07/11/2019 16:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

I think you will be taking a hell of a risk by staying with W7. I moved from W7 to W10, and it was dead easy. Lots of non-techie people do it without trouble.
They changed a couple of things, eg Control Panel is called Settings in W10.
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On 07/11/2019 17:58, GB wrote:
8<

Control panel has little resemblance to setting.. setting is much easier for the average user to understand. You can still get to control panel in win10 if you want.
I think its changes like this that make more advance win7 user claim win10 is terrible when its actually much better than win7, its also more secure and somewhat more responsive on the same hardware.
I have yet to come across a program that doesn't run on win10 that does run on win7.
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On 07/11/2019 16:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

I use Windows 10 with the Classic Shell menu which is very much like W7 was. I also use the free Kaspersky for security.
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Michael Chare

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On 07/11/19 16:40, Chris Hogg wrote:

Have you ever considered looking at Linux Mint ? I use that example specifically as it is probably one of the easiest Linux distros for a Windows user to get to grips with.
When my Win7 laptop started playing up around 5 years ago, I took the plunge after looking at Win8 and deciding I wasn't going there. I started with Ubuntu, but didn't really get on with of the interfaces (known as "desktops" in Linux-speak) on offer. The OS was on a Linux magazine DVD and came with 8 or 9 desktops. But the best thing was that it was a "live" DVD - you could boot from it, play as much as you liked with it and the programs on offer, and it wouldn't touch your hard disk unless you told it to. Everything is done from the DVD and RAM. Yes, it's a bit slow that way, but it works. After you've finished, you just eject the DVD and boot as normal next time around. Of course, if you like it, there is an option to install it on the hard disk, which I eventually did on a new laptop.
After about a year or so, I read good reviews of Linux Mint, so had a look at its live DVD. I liked it, and installed it with its "Cinnamon" desktop as a dual-boot with my old Ubuntu system as a back-up. A couple of updates later, I dumped Ubuntu completely. The main programs I use with it are those I used with Win7 - browser, email, VLC media player, text editor, password manager, pdf reader, etc. I used to use an old version of MS Office with Win7 as I absolutely hated the Ribbon interface. I eventually changed to what was then called Kingsoft office suite (now called WPS). This was - more or less - a Chinese copy of MS Office, but offered the old interface as well as the ribbon one. After moving to Mint, although there was - and is - a WPS version for Linux, I installed LibreOffice suite instead. Updating is an absolute doddle; every few days I get a notice that updates to the OS or programs are available. I can download and install or ignore as I want. I can set up the update manager to block updates of anything I don't want updated (as I did with FF and then with TB).
The only Windows program I really miss is IrfanView. It will run under Wine in Linux, but Wine, although useful for many programs which run only in Windows, brings with it all the vulnerabilities that Windows has (had? I believe that Win10 is much better in that respect). Any malware designed to attack Windows will probably run under Wine, and that will probably make your whole Linux setup vulnerable as well. To me, one of the major advantages of Linux is that although there have been viruses written to attack it, they are very rare. In fact, most Linux users have probably forgotten what antivirus software is, as they have not need to install it. As an aside, one of the most useful things is that unless you tell it otherwise on installation, the default account is a limited one. You will be able to run installed program,s but you can't install anything without entering a password to become elevated to an administrator account.
So what are the disadvantages? Well, Windows fanboiz will say "The Terminal", and that you will spend half your life keying in incomprehensible commands at something which looks like a Dos prompt, and get out an incomprehensible string of text in response. Well, I barely use the terminal, and when I do all I do is copy and paste whatever an expert in a help group tells me to, and report back what the output is. Rarely it doesn't help, and maybe I'll have to uninstall and reinstall something. One problem can be drivers, particularly for obscure hardware. Sometimes odd things might occur with printers, but the vast majority of these can be solved with help from the Linux community.
Just about everything involved with Linux is free - you can download Mint and burn it to a DVD to try it out if you don't want to lay out a fiver or so on a magazine with a "free" DVD. All it will cost you is some time.
Cue Windows trolls...
--

Jeff

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On 08/11/2019 11:22, Jeff Layman wrote: 8<

Nothing wrong with linux as an OS, but its the apps that matter. The OS is just a layer on the hardware to run apps.
Choose your apps and run them on what's best for you, ignore OS evangelists.
I will say if the hardware can't run win10 well enough it probably can't run most Linux distros well. You can remove features from win10 and Linux if needed.
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The simplest way to help an old laptop along with linux is to change the window manager to something lightweight. Typical defaults tend to be KDE or Gnome, but a switch to (e.g.) xfce can work wonders (I have one old laptop runing a recent Debian install, but using xfce; although for myself I prefer fvwm2 on Slackware).
#Paul
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You'll get away with it for a while then other issues will arise. I'm typing this on XP - the latest browser is now unsupported and as I result there are a number of sites that will not allow access including a site on which my investments are held.
The version of camera software I want to run will only run on 64bit so it has to be on the Win7 machine, I expect that will be updated at some time and will then only run Win10.
It isn't just security that will bring your system to a halt.
--
AnthonyL

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On 07/11/2019 14:27, GB wrote:

I've got win10 on the laptop in the house.
I hate it. Every time it comes out of standby it insists on doing an update check _right_ _now_ which as it is a cheap low-powered machine means it is useless for half an hour. Add on the MS tracking stuff...
On my list is a brain transplant for this machine. The motherboard had a sulk a few months back, wouldn't boot Took it all apart and put it back together again, and it's behaved since - but I suspect it was related to being asked to do a long transcode. So I'll ditch this old Core2 and Win7, and put Ubuntu on it - which is what I use at work.
Andy
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On 07/11/2019 21:53, Vir Campestris wrote:

I have a similar low power machine, and it doesn't do that. Something in your settings?
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On 08/11/2019 12:03, GB wrote:

My work laptop has Win10 too - but since it cost 5 times as much as the home one it has no trouble. (I have no idea why it's so high powered, all I do on it is email... the Ubuntu box is my proper workstation)
If you know a way to say "check for updates once a week" or such I'm all ears.
Andy
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On 08/11/2019 21:16, Vir Campestris wrote:

Have you looked at the update options in Settings?

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We don't know, Have you tried asking them. They took several years to stop supporting, and I'm sure some will be paying for support for 7 as they did with xp, so I'd imagine you might have another year. I'm certainly hanging on to 7, since an update every few months that trashes random software is not my idea of fun. Us blind need to often use older versions of software as they are often accessible unlike the new bright spanking new versions until the writers fix them, but some of us cannot wait with no email or whatever while third party companies faff about.
I'd steer clear of Avast or AVG though as they are bigger viruses than viruses in my view. I had to get Windows reinstalled when Avast removed all accessibility components when I uninstalled it last year. Bah humbug.
Brian
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On 07/11/2019 14:17, Chris Hogg wrote:

It never was very good at it even when it was maintained. I'm a bit surprised you ran into trouble with Win10 - I found it relatively easy to port most stuff onto Win10 (even though I prefer Win7 myself).
Win8 was a complete dog but that died an unpleasant and quick death.
You might be better off going forward with something paid for like Bitdefender or Kaspersky or PC Magazines recommended 2019 options.
https://uk.pcmag.com/antivirus/8141/the-best-antivirus-protection
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Martin Brown
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Well now I beg to differ, Msse has stopped quite a bit of nasty stuff here. I do have the free superantispyware which is slightly accessible unlike many of the others you mention, sadly. This is what often happens when different teams of programmers write different bits of the software using different packages. Sigh. When will courses for programmers include an accessibility module? It is not rocket science to design it in but it is awful to add later on. Brian
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Chris Hogg wrote:

it honestly isn't that bad, I've had customers who I have already upgraded ask "when is my machine being done?"

Do you have Home, or Pro? If the latter you can pay for extended support units (year1=$50, year2=$100, year3=$200)
Not the best link ...
<https://www.microsoft.com/microsoft-365/partners/news/article/announcing-paid-windows-7-extended-security-updates
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wrote:

Oh thanks - I might investigate that.
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Chris

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On 07/11/2019 16:41, Chris Hogg wrote:

I doubt it is really worthwhile for a domestic user. Making periodic offline backups would be a better investment of time and money.
I am genuinely a bit puzzled that you found Win10 so difficult to get to grips with. OK they have hidden things and tweaked the user interface but it is nowhere near as bad as the deranged Picasso look of Win8.
You can actually make it look close enough to Win7 to fool most people.
BTW My technophobic cousins blundered on with Vista until this time last year without any serious mishaps (long after official support ended).
Peak threat for Win7 will be the year after they discontinue official support when the number of target machines is still very high and routine support is ended. My guess is that if a really nasty critical vulnerability occurred they would still release a patch since otherwise there would be all sorts of places going down spectacularly.
(along the lines of the NHS with Wannacry in 2017)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-41753022
Patches being available still doesn't mean everyone applies them :(
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Martin Brown
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