I thought the ban on pearl (and not clear) was down to the assumption, right or wrong, that such bulbs use could be replaced by CFLs whereas those circumstances that require point-source light as obtained from clear bulbs, such as chandeliers and other fittings with 'decorative' aspects (flickering candle bulbs etc) would be allowed to continue... for the time being of course!
Mathew
We're a great fan of incandescent lighting, particularly the use of 'soft' bulbs with dimmers, and so for years we have disregarded the use of CFLs given the colour rendition, startup times and size where, in our opinion, they've not performed well at all.
However, when shopping recently for some replacement 40W 'golf ball' bulbs for some table lamps in the conservatory I decided to drop my prejudices and go for CFLs. I found some Philips Softone golf-ball CFLs which looked to be just the ticket - okay I couldn't dim them but they were something like 32W equivalent so it was worth a shot, particular as our incandescents were also Philips softone...
So disappointed. Gutted in fact. Perhaps my expectations were too high but I was really expecting to be pleased with them as I'd hoped that as the years had gone by these things had got better. Not only were they slow to start (I noted on the box afterwards they reach 60% output within 10-80 seconds!) but the colour rendition was awful - our ginger cat looked quite ill! I'd hoped that the softone aspect, particularly given that were from the same brand as I'd used previously for the incandescents, would have made them okay but there weren't. To be fair they were better than I'd seen previously from CFLs but still made the room look 'cold'.
My girlfriend was unaware of my experiment but immediately spotted I'd been up to something and asked what on Earth I'd done with the lights. Okay, so any variation from the norm would likely have been noticed so that doesn't mean much, however suffice to say she demanded they be removed and so back to the shop they've gone.
Should I persevere, or is this as good as they get?
Mathew
P.S. I'm talking about the bulbs, not the girlfriend ...!
Mathew
By and large, women have better colour vision - more receptors. A few women may have four colour vision.
Men, OTH, have better night vision. Mostly. Something to do with picking berries vs hunting?
Andy
and all women have the extra emitters that men don't have.
That may well be true, Matthew. I'd never actually seen a reason written down, so had assumed that the ban had at least a smidgen of basis in science, which is why I came up with the heat / energy wastage thoughts. I suppose that with anything coming out of the EC machine, I should have known better ...
As to your experience with the CFL golf balls, you only seem to be seeing what most of the rest of us are (although some on here claim that they either can't see a difference, or don't care about it). The dreadful devices seem only to have evolved in the number of different types of 'real' bulb that they are now trying to emulate. Other than that, they are still slow to wind up to their full output, and have a poor colour spectrum, which as you observed for yourself, made your poor old moggie look sick. And my new hallway decor look like it had been done by a colour blind madman on crack.
But my biggest problem with them is that my eyes are not what they were. Not anything particularly wrong with them, according to my optician, just normal age related deterioration. This alone causes me to really struggle to read under them. I have no trouble at all reading under daylight, tungsten light of any description, or even linear flourescent light. Just under those bloody things. I would be interested to hear if anyone else finds the same thing.
Arfa
Ignoring the fact that CFLs are acceptable to some of us, but not to others, most of the anti-CFL brigade seem to say they have no truck with linear fluorescent, what are the differences between "normal" fluorescents and CFLs?
I'd expect the phosphors to be similar giving them distinct spectrum lines (which I can *see* them when I notice a CFL reflected at an obtuse angle against the AR coating of my specs), the CFL will be driven in the kilohertz range rather than at mains frequency, and the linear fluorescent will obviously be a diffuse strip rather than a diffuse point source ... but how do these differences account for such a huge difference in how people perceive CFLs ...
We have a disparate range of makes, types and sizes here and have only 'noticed' this slow start thing that seems to exist for you on all such devices (assuming who haven't bout just the same make and model etc ) is on a 7w mini es CFL 'spot' that we have in a clamp on desk lamp, bought from Ikea.
Interesting. Turning this lamp on for the first time in ages (the 1 x
11W CFL we have laying on a bit of foil on a high shelf is normally enough in this lounge ) I see several stages (well, now I can see at all, blinded by the light).Switch on and it instantly 'comes on'. I can't say 'lights up' as it wasn't lit up as such. About .5s later it does 'light up' but only at probably 1/10 brightness. About 1 second after that it looks like it comes on properly and if you weren't looking into it as I was just now you might think it was actually at full brightness. However, these lamps seem to be made in two layers where there is one nearer the inside (parallel to the plane of the other 'glass' and the other outer layer on top, nearer the glass). Now the outer section of CFL seemed to grow to full brightness over the next 10 or so seconds (like water soaking into a cloth). I couldn't watch it to full completion and still can't see properly after typing all this (with one finger).
However, this is the only CFL we have that seems to exhibit this behaviour (or the others do but are not aware of it etc) and in this lamp such is actually quite pleasant (ie, we don't use it as a torch so the gradual ramp-up is actually quite sexy). ;-)
A thought on eyes in general then. A few years ago we went motorcycling round the back lanes in Norfolk with a mate and both mate and (my) missus said they were following the lights on the trailer I was towing behind my bike as they 'couldn't see' much else clearly. Maybe my night vision is 'above average' for a 54 year old and why I HATE being blinded by cars fitted with HID lamps while I wait at a roundabout or they follow me too close.
It seems the CFL 'light' thing is a Marmite one?
Cheers, T i m
What I find interesting is that this is the only place where I hear much if any criticism or comment about them. Other people just seem to use them.
We have some that, when you first turn them on, you'd hardly know you'd done it. However I just yesterday replaced a dead 60W tungsten with a new tubular one (see pic at
I do take one thing back. I said the Prolites are very good and they do seem to be the best and brightest CFL *I* have come across (not withstanding other people's experience with the same blowing up - not a problem I've had).
But I have noticed that while they are great for plumbing and wiring work, I've had some difficulty painting a light green wall with them (3 such bulbs, all 25-30W).
Cutting in to the white ceiling it is very hard to see where the green ends and the white begins. And it's equally hard to see what I've covered painting over a white mist coat.
I guess it's because they are strong emitters in the green part of the spectrum?
So - there you go...
I'll see if B&Q have got any BC halogens.
Tim
Is that red, green, blue and "not expensive enough"?
Linear fluorescents have a big choice of tubes - at least in the common sizes - and if you want a decent continuous spectrum light output you can find them. CFLs seem to be made only down to a price.
Yes indeed. No matter what supposed colour they are, they still seem to have a predominance of green in their spectrum, which is what I think gives the light that sort of 'sick' quality. I sometimes walk around the village at night, and it is very easy to spot the windows that have CFL lit rooms behind them, over those that are using tungsten.
Arfa
It's a mystery to me as well. I have a number of linear flourescents around the house and in my workshop that I work in all day. The kitchen and utility room both have them. The tubes that are fitted are a mish-mash of colours including "white", "warm white" and "daylight". I have absolutely no truck with the colour or quality of light from any of them. I could not, in all honesty, describe the light from any of them as being 'sick' or having a tendency towards green. I don't believe that the drive frequency has anything at all to do with spectrum either, as modern linear ballasts are also actually high frequency driver circuits. So it has to be a phosphor thing I think. It is my feeling that linear flourescent colours don't look 'right' in a small bulb structure, so instead of using phosphors of those colours, the manufacturers use tricolour mixes to try to emulate the colour of tungsten lighting. Unfortunately, these phosphors don't produce the same spectrum.
But here's a thought that just came to me. About 15 years ago, we owned a children's day nursery, which we ran in a Victorian school that we bought. Your typical infant or junior school that the older ones of us all went to. The ceilings were very high, and each room had about 12 light fittings that were very long pendants. In such large rooms, to get enough light in the winter, it was necessary to use 100 watt bulbs. This had the dual downside of of being expensive to run at 1200 watts for 10 hours a day in each room, and the heat of 100 watt bulbs burning for that length of time every day, had a tendency to burn out the light fittings every few months. So we started fitting some CFLs that were called 'Dulux EL Globes'. These things were the size of a large orange perhaps, and white. I can't remember what the power rating of them was, but they easily achieved the same overall light level in the room, as the tungsten lamps had. They started pretty much instantly as I recall, but still took a while to achieve full running brightness. But here's the thing. Although it cost us a lot of money to equip all the rooms with them in the first place - I seem to recall that they were about a tenner apiece - I only remember having to replace a couple for failing over the years that we were still there afterward. And the colour of the light was excellent. I wonder whatever happened to that brand and type. Anyone else remember them ?
Arfa
I'm right with your missus on that one. That delay between flicking the light switch, and actually getting light, drives ne up the wall. We have one in our downstairs loo, and have had for a long time. Every time I go in there and flick the light switch on, a thought rushes through my head, and that is "Shit - the bulb's gone" and that is followed a hundred milliseconds later by "oh no it hasn't ..." For some reason, the expectation of instant light is so deeply ingrained in me, that I just can't shake it. I also hate that 'warmup' period. It just isn't right.
Arfa
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 08:57:20 +0100 someone who may be Mark wrote this:-
The second one is £2.75 + VAT and delivery from that supplier, but they are also available in shops.
The first one is more expensive. I have seen Megaman lamps in shops, but don't recall seeing that model in the shops. However, that proves nothing as I look for light bulbs very infrequently these days as they last so long. You may be pleased to know that my outside dusk to dawn one failed yesterday. It has lasted about a decade.
On Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:11:05 +0100 someone who may be Mark wrote this:-
Indeed. The bird song (and to some extent lambs) is beautiful to listen to and is louder than the sound of the wind farms I have visited.
Really? I'll indulge you, what wind farms are you referring to?
On Thu, 9 Sep 2010 09:50:21 +0100 someone who may be "Arfa Daily" wrote this:-
Yes, and I'm happy to do so. However, your criticism, such as it was, should be directed to David JC MacKay rather than me.
All well researched sets of figures will tell one the limits of confidence one can have in the figures. Just about all research says that more research is needed to make it more accurate.
There are plenty of surveys looking at public opinion, such as
In article , Arfa Daily scribeth thus
I'd have thought you'd be more worried as to whether or not you were going the -hit- the intended target;')....
HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.