modern condensing boiler vs. dacades old standard boiler,

[Doctor Drivel]

Totally correct!

[Andy Cap]

QED

[Toby]

Knowing the warranty does (should!) give some kind of indication to the build quality too, a manufacturer won't want to have to keep coming out repairing things!

We have recently had an Alpha CD28C Extra fitted to one of our offices, this comes with a 12 year warranty. (10 Year Parts and 5 Year Labour Guarantee plus an additional 2 years with PremierPack installation giving a total of

12 years)

The extra cost of this boiler, compared to a Worcester with a 5 year gurantee, was a no brainer.

We just have to make sure it is serviced every year, which we do anyway.

Toby...

[Nightjar]

EcoTec plus 615 system boiler, uniSTOR 155 cylinder, VTR 360 programmable room thermostat and VR 65 control center (which is needed for the uniSTOR). I did like the idea of a thermostat with outside temperature compensation, but that would have been a special order and I would not have got my trade discount on it.

If DD does not like it, I must have made the right choice.

Colin Bignell

[Nightjar]

...

That is still more complex than a system boiler.

They are fairly useless if you want to fill a bath though.

Worse than a couple of air receivers working at 11 bar?

Wow, a whole pound or two a week.

Been there, tried it, did not like it.

You don't have your gas boiler serviced every year, but worry about the dangers from an unvented cylinder?

Colin Bignell

[Andy Champ]

Just FYI Dribble is one of two people on my "delete without even showing them to me" list. The other one was spamming watches.

Andy

[geoff]

Not at all

they wheel him out for half an hours fresh air every day

[Doctor Drivel]

Not much.

It is for backup and will do a shower.

If you want full backup have two boilers and one being electric and a backup genny as well. Where do you want to stop?

Uh?

That is £100 in 10 years. £2000 in 20 years. Not economical at all. Sell it now!!!!

Which one? What kW? You never tried an ATAG

I do not have my boiler serviced? It is mandatory to have the unvented cylinder serviced.

[Doctor Drivel]

You are a madman!

[Doctor Drivel]

He does!

[Doctor Drivel]

Maxie! Have you been Paddybanding tonight. I bet you look superb on stage with your turned down wellies. Are the wellies well shined? Do you have the matching donkey jacket? Fantastic indeed.

[John Rumm]

But still more complex none the less.

What if you want a backup that does a bath?

A cylinder with an immersion heater in it sounds far simpler.

unless you service it yourself.

No its not. (unless you can cite a statute?)

Dribble, why do you persist with this nonsense about unvented cylinders?

Yes we know if you heat one electrically, and defeat the (multiple) safety systems, you can make it explode. By the same logic you can render your car dangerous by disconnecting the brakes as well, does that mean we should not have cars?

If you heat one via an indirect coil from your CH boiler, how do you propose causing a steam explosion now? You need multiple failures in the boiler (over temp stat failed, pump failure, pressure release valve failure), to enable it to boil water and start superheated steam production. You then need multiple failures in the cylinder such as over temp and over pressure valve failures. Chances of getting all these happening at once?

[Doctor Drivel]

Silly pillock!

Silly pillock, you get a shower until the combi is fixed.

A combi even simpler. Silly pillock!

Which you cannot do . G3 only!

It is .

< snip drivel >

[Nightjar]

I don't have a shower or a shower attachment.

An immersion heater in the hot water tank will do me. I said backup, not paranoia.

It would seem to be a simple enough question. Is an unvented cylinder at mains pressure a greater danger than two similarly sized air receivers working at 11 bar? I've had those around for over 20 years without being worried about them blowing up.

Interesting maths. £100 in 10 years = £2000 in 20 years. In any case, if that really worried me, I will be saving more than £1000 a year in road fuel when I downsize to a 2.5 litre diesel Mercedes E Class in September.

Long since forgotten.

They were rated in BTU in those days and, like the make, I have long since forgotten.

I can't say I have ever rated the Dutch as world leaders in engineering.

You claim no annual service expenses and I don't know anyone who services boilers for free.

It is mandatory to have the air receivers serviced. So what?

Colin Bignell

[John Rumm]

Ah, so having highlighted the flaw in your logic you go back to name calling huh? Almost as convincing as your political ravings.

Why make do with a shower if you want a bath, and its easy to provide without having a combi?

What if circumstances dictate a shower is not suitable?

Why must "one dribble size" fit all?

You were not suggesting a combi, but two of them, plus an electric generators. So not "even simpler" you silly pillock.

Yes you can.

Its G3 only in exactly the same way that installing a boiler is Gas Safe only.

Citation? or are you full of it like usual?

So you can't think of a realistic way in which a boiler heated unvented cylinder can pose a measurable risk either then I take it?

Let me remind you want I said since you seem to accidentally deleted it:

If you heat one via an indirect coil from your CH boiler, how do you propose causing a steam explosion now? You need multiple failures in the boiler (over temp stat failed, pump failure, pressure release valve failure), to enable it to boil water and start superheated steam production. You then need multiple failures in the cylinder such as over temp and over pressure valve failures. Chances of getting all these happening at once?

[geoff]

Compound interest on planet drivel

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Not everyone lives in a one room council flat, dribble. For those who have the space a storage cylinder with a backup immersion makes sense. Something you lack entirely.

[Doctor Drivel]

You are just a silly Chav pillock.

It is backup. This chav doesn't know what it is.

No you CANNOT!!!! G3 only.

Drivel!

Unvented Cylinder blasts:

?v=GF_Wrm-Ns0IAn exploding water heater ripped apart a north Phoenix home Thursday morning.

Video from Air15, near 40th Street and Thunderbird Road, showed a hole in the roof of the garage, a pile of rubble, and debris blown out into the neighborhood.

The water heater ended up on a sidewalk about two blocks away, across from a school.

Fire spokesman Victor Rangel said the temperature and pressure valve malfunctioned, sending the water heater skyrocketing.

Nearby residents were evacuated as a Southwest Gas crew and agents from Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms investigated. Neighbors were allowed back into their homes after about two hours.

Many neighbors described the sound of a bomb, with windows shattering, walls shaking, and in one home pictures falling off walls.

A neighbor's wall was damaged by the explosion, which also broke windows in a house across the street.

One woman who lives two blocks away said the blast knocked all the pictures off her walls.

Click related link to right to see a water heater explosion.

Most of the damage occured to the house next door and directly across the street. However debris from the blast could be seen in yards and on roof tops.

According to Phoenix firefighters, the owner of the house was asleep when the blast ripped apart his garage about 5 a.m.

Red Cross relocated the homeowner.

No one was injured. [luckily]

Rangel said he's never seen this happen and he'd spoken to several plumbers who had heard of hot water heaters exploding, but had never seen it happen.

He said homeowners need to keep up with the maintenance of water heaters; sometimes the T and P valves become corroded or have been installed improperly.

Rangel suggests having the units checked by a professional, especially for people buying homes that have gone through foreclosure. A home bought after a foreclosure might not have gone through an inspection, especially in a short sale.

Water heater warnings and tips from the Phoenix Fire Department Most of the time, your water heater just sits where it's been placed, quietly doing its job. But unlike your family pet, if it's unhappy it's not going to walk to the door and bark and scratch. It could just suddenly blow up like the one that exploded this morning near Thunderbird Road and 38th Street.

What? You didn't know that your water heater could be so lethal? It can be if a tank has been improperly installed, if hazards have been allowed to develop over time, if it has been improperly vented, or if the pressure relief valve has been tampered with.

Here are some safety tips to use when operating your hot water heater:

TEMPERATURE/PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE (T&P)

This valve is designed to prevent a tank from exploding if temperature or pressure exceeds safe limits, by opening and venting. Unfortunately, residential valves are somewhat prone to failure. They should be checked once a year by a G3 certifiedman. Water should flow freely out and stop when you let go of the handle. If it does nothing, runs or drips, then the valve should be replaced. Hooking up the drain line with a union or flex connector makes T&P replacement MUCH easier.

People don't like to service their unvented cylidners. But when water heaters explode, it's catastrophic. People are injured or die; buildings are severely damaged. Test your T&Ps!

Also, T&P drain lines should go down and out. Never up. If the valve opens, water will pool there and corrode it shut.

Finally, if water is running out of your T&P line, look for the cause. It might just be a bad T&P. But it could also signal high-pressure problems or a dangerously defective control. Don't ignore it!

--------------------------------

Explosion lifts off roof

Tue, January 08 2008

Roof blown off house and then brought back down on to the bungalow after hot water tank causes explosion

A HOME in Pamber Heath was wrecked this afternooon (Monday) after the roof of the bungalow was lifted by the force of an explosion.

Firefighters from Tadley and Basingstoke rushed to the scene at 12.10pm, after what was though to be a gas explosion at the private bungalow in Silchester Road. It was later discovered to be caused by an electric hot water tank.

Luckily no-one was at home at the time and no-one was hurt.

Upon arrival, firefighters discovered the explosion had caused extensive damage to internal and external walls and the roof.

Hampshire fire spokesman, Mark Jones, who attended the scene, said the bungalow was now "uninhabitable" following damage to internal and load bearing walls. "The roof was blown off and came back down on the house, as all the tiles were loose," he said. "And there's a big outwards bow in one of the outside walls."

According to Mr Jones the cause was an electric hot water tank, which got "hotter and hotter" after an emersion heater had been left on, with the water turned off. Incident commander, Tony Evans of Basingstoke Fire Station, decided not to the evacuate the surrounding properties, which were not damaged in the blast. He said he was confident there would be no more explosions.

Hampshire Fire and Rescue Service's Urban Search and Rescue team, which is trained to rescue people from collapsed buildings and to stabilise unsafe structures, was put on standby but not required.

[Doctor Drivel]

Some will fill a bath slowly. Get a shower you filthy person.

Yep a combi and a small inline instant backup electric heater. Saves space, no annual service charge and will not take down the side of your house. You will die.

yes. See my other post with evidence of catastrophic explosions.

We are on about water heaters not your frigging car you sycophantic idiot. It will be more like £3-4,000 over 20 years as service prices rise. Then replacement of expensive pressure valves.They are NOT cheap at all.

They are now in combis. They invented the condensing boiler. A 51kW ATAG is a class act - also has weather compensation as well.. And beat any unvented cylinder. You have never heard of one.

No annual service on just have a cylinder of water. You will have to pay a service on the boiler AND unvented cylinder.

Read on.....

BS-approved UDHW systems training manual, under the heading of maintenance, p40:

"the installer is responsible for the safe INSTALLATION of the unit. He/she must also make his customer aware that periodic checks of the equipment are ESSENTIAL FOR SAFETY... some manufacturers recommend a MAXIMUM of 12 months. Experience of local water conditions may indicate that MORE FREQUENT inspection is desirable."

BS6700: 1997 states that with unvented cylinders, the "maintenance and periodic easing of temperature relief valves is particularly important".

[Doctor Drivel]

Maxie! Fantastic! Where on stage last night? Did you flop into bed with your turned down wellies on last night. What a man!