Hello,
Just had wooden window frames replaced with uPVC. The old frames had those magnetic sensors screwed into the Window/Frame. Whats the best way of fitting these on the new uPVC frames ? I was told it invalidates the guarantee if you screw things into them ?
Any thoughts?
Cheers, Tim.
Double sided sticky pads.
Hellraiser...........>
just don't stick anything heavy up with them, my net curtains have just fallen down for the third time (and they're stuck up with the fixings that they came with, in case anyone thinks it's *my* bodge)
tim
I find that hard to believe, but obviously you mustn't put the screws through into one of the rubber strip seals or part of the window mechanism or break through into drainage channels, etc. You might find you could glue them on with PVC solvent weld if it will stick to whatever the contacts are made of. Be very careful not to get it onto the PVC frames except under the contact as it will mark the PVC and you'll never get the mark off.
I got my installer to deliver all the frames 3 days before they were installed, and I fitted all the contacts to them before the installers put the frames in, and the cable is threaded inside the frames. The installer was actually rather impressed...
For my patio doors, I removed the reed relay from the case and superglued it inside one of the cover strips in the door jam, and screwed the magnet to the door, although it could also have been glued. The wiring was easy since all the frame is hollow.
Not tried with a window, and of course I installed mine myself so could dismantle it as necessary - not so easy when it's been fitted.
In my innocence, I assumed they'd allowed for the fitting of switches in the design, given how many houses now have alarms.
Can I ask, why do you need contacts on the windows ? Aren't the rooms covered by PIR's ? Are you hoping someone will try to open the window rather than cut out the glass double glazing unit, which is the most likely to happen ?
I just can't get my head around having reed switches on windows. Shock inertia sensors yes, or even glass break detectors in the room, but magnetic contacts ? No, don't get that one at all.
If nothing else they will give a reminder if one is left open.
In article , BigWallop writes
Can't imagine anyone bothering to cut through 2 sheets of glass to get in, did you mean remove the DG unit by forcing the frame? In spite of the 'high security' claims of multi point locked plastic windows, I can't see them lasting 2mins to a jemmied/screwdrivered attack, then a contact would be useful.
Can you tell us a bit about what you've seen in the wild? I imagine you get a lot of domestic work after they've had their first burglary, so what's the favoured method of entry (after the open window of course ;-).
To tell you that you forgot to shut a window when you arm the system.
Most windows have a channel in the top of the opening part, a magnet glues in here easily. In all the windows I've seen (not that many) there's been enough space between the window and the frame to glue a reed relay - but then you need to drill a hole through the frame to pass the cable through.
Dave S
Left open ? You mean you don't check that all the windows are locked secure before you leave the house, and have to rely on the alarm to tell you, you've missed something ? Sorry to say this, but, "You're asking to be burgled" relying on this method of security.
Well, the most favoured attacks by the vocational drug crazed bandits are forced entry by grabbing the person as they leave or enter the house and beating them until they find out where all the most valuable items are in the house. But I don't want to frighten you to much about the rising the statistics of this type of attack. Car jacking is also done this way.
The next method is the prizing off of the outer leaf of the window frame in modern double glazing units. Most aluminium is soft enough to break at the corner welds and uPVC is soft enough to just break away or bend out. Then the whole glass unit is lifted out and they have a huge opening to get things in and out of the house. This method is not restricted to ground floor windows either.
Another method is the screwdriver in the side of the lock on the new doors. The large screwdriver is punched through the door skin and the lock is then wrenched out allowing them to pull the locking system away from the side catches and opening the door.
But the best favoured by most would be bandits is still the opportunity of open windows and doors, and this is neither restricted by the occupant being away or in attendance. It is only the more professional thief that goes for the quieter area to make the full break in attempts.
I have to admit that the perimeter sensors are becoming an obsolete item in the alarm systems of today. The best method of protection is the PIR in the room itself. The final entry / exit point can be a PIR instead of a reed switch if you wish, so you don't need to be set on contacts to begin the entry time down on the system.
It is still a fact that the everyday burglar will think twice about attacking a property which they believe is connected directly to a response service, because they don't really want to get caught or even draw attention to themselves if possible. The professional thief will only target a simple get in and grab situation and they don't really want to hang around to see if the police will give them a car chase around town like you see on the television.
We have three EX burglars working on our team, and you wouldn't know they were ever capable of carrying out this type of crime because of their demeanour today. They are fantastic at showing people how simple it is to by-pass things which the customer thinks is impossible to do disarm. They are an invaluable part of the team in the training of other engineers who know only how to fit the equipment and not exactly how or where it should be placed to give the best possible protection. But these guys can show you how not to do it, which is much better at just guessing.
but you don't cut it, you just use one of those 'professional' breakers to shatter it, one pane at a time.
The fire brigade broke into mine by extracting the external beading. They actually found this rather difficult, making a mess of three windows before they got one open. I believe that external beading is now not allowed under the new regs (abolishing the rip-off of charging extra for internal at a stroke). The 'window' that they got through was actually a 'solid' panel. From a security pov these are a joke. If you don't have a problem with destroying it (which fortunately the FB did) you can cut through it, silently, with a hand drill and a keyhole saw in a few minutes.
tim
I'm happy for you that you always have the time to do this whenever you slip out for 5 minutes. ;-)
My windows are either locked or open. If I forget to close one then the alarm will tell me. I live on my own, so don't have to go running round checking up on what others have and haven't done.
As regards removing the glazing units as a means of entry, this might be so. But with a normal window a burglar won't usually risk crawling through broken glass so will force the window open, and this will set off the alarm. But I've got PIRs and pressure pads as well...
Now pressure sensors on the windows are better. Bubble tube on the sills also works fine and only detects things over a couple of stone in weight ( i'm useless at metric weight), so can pick up anyone kneeling or standing on the sill. They can also be used around the edges of roofs and things. The noeprene tube seal around the window can also have a pressure wire inserted. This activates if the window is being forced or opened. But I, like many others, can fool a magnetic sensor into letting me pass without detection.
Try this test: Take a large magnet, one from the magnet base of car antenna is the best, and hold it on the outside of the window where the sensor is.
In article , BigWallop writes
Thanks for the insight.
I used to think PIRs were just a lazy installer's way of making life easy for themselves and suppose I still do where they are the only method of defence. I used to come in from a bike ride on a cold night & didn't trigger any of the PIRs in my folks place, so I don't place ultimate faith in them, even with newer technology.
I reckon there's still a place for perimeter protection as if my alarm goes off before they gain entry I am less likely to suffer a major loss whereas if I wait until they are on the premises there is a greater risk of grabbing a few goodies before they go.
I suppose I'm into layering the security, and not just the alarm, eg. weak locks on the storm doors but hidden contacts followed by huge security on inner door so that the sounders are going while an attack is in progress.
Thanks again & I'll def be hiding any new contacts I put in ;-)
Well, yes. But my sensors aren't professionally installed, so neither they or their wiring is visible ;-) - unless the door or window is opened.
I'm not pretending that my system is state of the art - far from it. But then I've got nothing pro burglars would be interested in. Just trying to stop the opportunist types.
The bloke that fitted my alarm told me that uPVC doors can be specified with reed switches built in. I don't know if this is true (and I guess it's no help to you, but I'd like to know if that is correct or not).
Mark W.
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