Would it be acceptable practice (sensible and safe) to take a spur from a lighting circuit to create an electrical socket extension which may be used for table lamps, hi-fi etc.
Bruce
Would it be acceptable practice (sensible and safe) to take a spur from a lighting circuit to create an electrical socket extension which may be used for table lamps, hi-fi etc.
Bruce
You will probably gets lots of answers along the lines of "NO!", and "Step away from that consumer unit NOW!".
In general, those are good answers. There is one exception. It would be acceptable to fit a 5-amp(?) round-pin lighting socket to a lighting circuit. You would then need to fit the corresponding plug to the table lamp, and all would be well (you can even switch the table lamp on and off from the wall switch this way).
I don't know whether you may fit a 5-amp plug to a high-fi. My immediate reaction is "bodge!".
Martin Bonner
Thanks for your reply.
One wall in my lounge has no sockets. Nearest sockets are on the opposite wall. So, to run a hi-fi located near the wall in question, I would have to insert trunking or use extension sockets or something. But the wall in question does have a "feature lighting" unit which is turned on/off via a switch embedded in the wall below -- I was hoping to "tap into" this and create an extra socket.
One other option is drilling through the breezeblock wall to connect to a socket in the bedroom.
Bruce
Martin Bonner wrote | You will probably gets lots of answers along the lines of "NO!", and | "Step away from that consumer unit NOW!". | In general, those are good answers. There is one exception. It would | be acceptable to fit a 5-amp(?) round-pin lighting socket to a lighting | circuit. You would then need to fit the corresponding plug to the | table lamp, and all would be well (you can even switch the table lamp | on and off from the wall switch this way).
Protection needs to be considered. A lighting circuit will have been designed for 4s disconnection time, not 0.4s required for sockets/portable appliances. If the installation is TT earthed then 30mA RCD protection is usually required on all sockets, but the lighting circuit should usually be supplied from a 100mA time-delayed RCD.
Owain
This option would, IMO, be the better one [1], you are then not limited to a total of 5amp for the load and your lighting.
[1] assuming that the socket in the bedroom is not it's self a spur.
A 2-amp BS546 round-pin socket is also OK on lighting circuits. In both cases, you must use a shuttered socket outlet when using these in the home (unshuttered BS546 round-pin sockets do exist). I would suggest using Klik lighting outlets nowadays in the case of connecting non-portable lighting via a plug and socket -- I use these for connecting up under/over cupboard lighting and the like.
No, just RCD protection -- it does not need to be 30mA as the purpose is not to prevent electrocution.
I would go for the option of a drill throug, much neater, as it woul
work also of the general socket fuse, and not of the lighting fuse,
So if you isolate the sockets, it will only isolate the sockets, so n confusion there
Just my 2
-- Mcluma
Bruce wrote | But the wall in question does have a "feature lighting" unit which | is turned on/off via a switch embedded in the wall below -- I | was hoping to "tap into" this and create an extra socket.
Probably not possible to take the new socket supply from the switch anyway, as the switch is unlikely to have a neutral present.
Owain
Sorting out the living room lights is a job on my round tuit list, for which this Klik system sounds a strong candidate. I keep seeing mention of it here (probably by you Andrew!?) but other than a solitary ceiling rose at
Thanks David
It would be the best idea to drill through the wall and connect to the existing socket in the bedroom then. Lighting circuits aren't really meant for plugging the vacuum and things in to, which will probably happen if you fitted a new socket to the lights. You can't be sure that it won't happen.
Remember to install a Fused Spur beside the socket you want to tap off from if you're only going to install one 2.5mm Twin and Earth cable to the new sockets. This type of circuit is called a "radial circuit" and needs a bit more protection from overload than the final mains ring circuit. You can fit two or three double gang sockets to the new radial circuit, as long as it is protected by a Fused Spur Unit rated at 13 Amps beside the socket you have taken the new circuit from.
Hope this helps a bit. Good luck with it.
If it is, then swap it for a fused connection unit and mount the existing socket beside it, then connect from there through the wall to your new socket. The FCU will ensure you are not going to overload the cable on the spur, although will obviously limit the total load on both sockets combined to 13A
Although that's quite true I think you'd be very hard pressed in practice to find a domestic lighting circuit where the disconnection time exceeds 0.4 s. In most cases the circuit length will be limited by voltage drop and Zs will be low enough for an earth fault to clear in well under 0.4 s. A quick glance at the first few radial circuits listed in Table 7.1 of the OSG confirms this.
Not that this is an argument for installing general purpose power points on lighting circuits, which IMO would breach Regs 314-01-01 and -02 on both safety and convenience grounds.
They are available in architrave flush mounting format, which is probably the most useful (unless you already have the round BESA boxes). Buy them from a local electrical wholesaler, where you'll find they are quite cheap.
Here are a couple of links google brings up...
I personally would not use Klik for portable lighting, as the connectors are necessarily locking. I use BS546 2A sockets for this purpose.
I'm surprised you even consider this when you have a drill through option available. A drill through from opposite room is probably the easiest method of adding a socket, even easier than bodging into the lighting circuit.
Christian.
do not put a 13Amp soket on a lighting circuit
one day someone will isolate the socket circuit then work on a liv socket , because its wired to the lights it will still be live . potential manslaughter case
-- Tony
That's a potential Darwin award case, not a manslaughter case. It's the job of the person working on a circuit to be sure it's not live, and if they make assumptions as you suggest above, their days are numbered anyway.
A manslaughter case is more likely to arise in the case of the 13A socket enabling the lighting circuit to be overloaded and a fire resulting.
Unfortunately that hasnt always stopped people.
NT
a manslaughter case could arise from work that goes against BS7671 (IE wiring regs), not because this is a legal document , but because it wil be used as a standard which work should be carried out to
-- Tony
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