Levels and a level

Am I in a minority in being unable to set an accurate horizontal level against a vertical surface like a wall using a spirit level?
There seems to be a degree(?) of variance between just touching and just past the line for the bubble which seems to be beyond my ability to discriminate.
Fall back is measuring up the wall from a flat surface.
A laser level might help (if I can get the level level, so to speak, which comes back to the original problem).
What do the experts do?
Cheers
Dave R
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David wrote:

They tend to be self-levelling (within sensible limits and flash if they're outside the limits)
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On 18/03/2018 14:11, David wrote:

Generally if you get the bubble equidistant between the lines you should be ok.
However keep in mind that looking from an angle can shift the apparent position a bit - so look straight on.
Also don't assume the level is actually spot on. You should test it from time to time. (set it level and draw a line on the wall, now flip it round left to right and repeat - the lines should be perfectly parallel / super imposed)

How do you know the surface is level?
(although there is an argument that if levelling something close to another horizontal surface, it often looks better to copy any error in it rather than fix it)

The better ones are self levelling - you just need to get them roughly level - the do the rest. (mine flashes the laser if the base unit is more than 4 degrees off level - that being the amount it can self level)

See above - or practice with the conventional one until you get comfortable with it ;-)
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 14:32:50 +0000

I fitted a mantle shelf and tiled down from there, only to find that the tiles on one side didn't quite meet the hearth because it was "level" with the floor. :-( Just painting the wonky grout gap made it blend in sufficiently that the unevenness isn't noticeable, but that's not a mistake I'll make again.
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I'd wager no-one notices apart from you!
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 14:11:00 +0000, David wrote:

Cheapest self leveling level is <https://www.screwfix.com/p/bosch-pll1p-line-laser-level/7879g Same price from Screwfix and Amazon.
However this seems to project a point and not a line.
Are there ones which project a line - that is set up a foot or so from the wall on a tripod, self levels, then displays a horizontal line along the wall so you can mark up points along the line.
I assume with the Bosch one above you mark a point then swing the level and mark another point.
I note the flexible wall holder but I'm not sure how that fixes to a wall.
Cheers
Dave R
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On Sunday, 18 March 2018 14:11:04 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:

What's the problem?
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:24:11 -0700, tabbypurr wrote:

Long term inability (decades) to set an accurate level using a spirit level. Unlikely that learning is going to change it at this stage of my life.
So I'm looking at alternatives.
Not pressing for today because the wall I'm working with is already marked up (fortunately) but it did remind me of failures in the past and tasks in the future.
Cheers
Dave R
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On 18/03/2018 15:30, David wrote:

In which case something like:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/bosch-gcl-2000-self-levelling-cross-line-laser/9780p
(see lawson-his for them rather than SF though since they have a much wider range of kits)
is very nice because it projects a bright clear horizontal line, a vertical line, and a pair of straight up and straight down dots. It makes all kinds of setting out jobs really easy.
This type I find far more useful than the type that just project a line from the end of a conventional level.
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On Sun, 18 Mar 2018 16:54:05 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

laser/9780p

Erm......possibly more expensive than I was expecting.
£30 is not a big ticket item but £135 takes me into the realm of "If I was going to spend £135 then is this top of my list".
However good tools are very rarely wasted money.
Thanks
Dave R
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On 18/03/18 18:01, David wrote:

I bought a digital 'spirit level' from Lidl for ~£18. Same thing as the usual bubble level but with a digital display added in.
Not available at lidl now but this looks much the same:

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On 18/03/2018 18:01, David wrote:

Probably... there are other similar ones out there that may be cheaper - I was just showing one that I knew had the features...

Yup, I know what you mean. Normally I wait until I have a job that justifies it[1], but get something decent since I never regret buying good tools. (and quite often have ended up buying cheap ones again!)
[1] in the case of a laser level I had about 30m^2 of tiling to do, and that seemed like a good enough excuse! It was so much easier to get a baton on the wall all round and know it would all line up when you got back to the start ;-)
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On Sunday, 18 March 2018 15:30:11 UTC, David WE Roberts (Google) wrote:

self levelling laser job is the simple answer. Spirit levels are easy enough to learn to use though. Just place it on a probably flat surface both ways round, it should read the same each way. If not it needs adjustment.
Or if you fancied you could always make a plumb bob level :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumb_bob
NT
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David has brought this to us :

The ultimate, which is always correct, is a water level. Just water filling a clear section of pipe, but be aware that air bubbles can off set it - always ensure any bubbles are out of the water. They work over a short distance, or a very long distance.
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Well the earth is curved after all, so in reality nothing is flat or level is it? Brian
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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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On 19/03/2018 10:26, Brian Gaff wrote:

I wonder how big a thing (building? bridge?) has to be before designers have to take into account the curvature of the earth?
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I cut and pasted that text into Google and ...
... legions of flat earth loons came galloping out of the woodwork.
:o(
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On 19/03/18 11:11, Max Demian wrote:

The tracks supprting the radio telecopes at Madingley - at two miles long - were 'up' by IIRC 4 " at each end..
So not very big..
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Yes. They have to do it at the Stanford Linear Accelerator, which is also two miles long.
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Madingley?, Lords bridge Squire;)...
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Tony Sayer



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