Shows how much you know.
I have never owned car where you could have the front fogs on without the headlights.
Try any Ford with the rotary/pull position/headlight/fogs switch for example. Turn it to off and it pops back in turning the fog lights off as well.
MBQ
2006 corsa works without the headlights on..
Have you ever thought about treatment for your delusions?
Strangely, I'm still breathing.
snipped-for-privacy@j15g2000vbt.googlegroups.com...
So you based your statement on your experience of one car.
MBQ
No I based it on fact! I knew of none where what you said was true, now someone has stated it to be true on one.
And you based yours on experience of how many? And how do you get to *most* based on your experience?
At least I didn't make stupid claims.
It does seem to vary by make - and possibly by age too. Both my cars allow the front fogs to be used independently of the headlights. Anything else would be a nonsense.
However, the HC rule as quoted earlier is ambiguous on this point. Obviously written by an idiot.
Logically, there is no point in fitting dedicated fog lights if they only work with headlights, as those headlights will produce light scatter negating the benefits of a low mounted light with flat top beam designed to cut under the fog and illuminate the road just in front of the car.
Its even more confusing when you see cars that have supplemental driving lamps that aren't fog lamps at all. These have to work with the headlights.
I should point out that the extra visibility from fog lamps is likely to be an illusion. there is no reason why a wide angle beam should penetrate further into the fog than the headlights and the glare doesn't actually make it so you can't see further, it just makes it easier on the eyes.
What you need is augmented reality with an IR illuminator and a head up display fed from an IR camera. Not that i have seen any really thick fog for the last decade (stuff that would require you drive below 30).
Requirements about the use of headlamps and front fog lamps
25.-(1) Save as provided in paragraph (2), no person shall use, or cause or permit to be used, on a road a vehicle which is fitted with obligatory dipped-beam headlamps unless every such lamp is kept lit-(a)during the hours of darkness, except on a road which is a restricted road for the purposes of section 81 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 by virtue of a system of street lighting when it is lit; and .
(b)in seriously reduced visibility. .
(2) The provisions of paragraph (1) do not apply-
(a)in the case of a motor vehicle fitted with one obligatory dipped-beam headlamp or a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if a main-beam headlamp or a front fog lamp is kept lit; .
(b)in the case of a motor vehicle, other than a solo motor bicycle or motor bicycle combination, fitted with a pair of obligatory dipped-beam headlamps, if- . (i)a pair of main-beam headlamps is kept lit; or . (ii)in seriously reduced visibility, a pair of front fog lamps which is so fitted that the outermost part of the illuminated area of each lamp in the pair is not more than 400 mm from the outer edge of the vehicle is kept lit;
Clear now?
I wonder where the bit about only using them in falling snow or fog is?
It's not so much the wide beam angle, but the very narrow horizontal one which helps. In the '60s, when these things were self fit extra, I did a lot of trial & error tests. We also got quite a bit of fog in those days.
You've been lucky. I've ceratinly had to crawl (at 20mph) quite recently
It only confuses if you don't know your car.
It's the low mounting of the lamp that makes the difference. The actual beam, less so.
[snip]
What is that quoted from? It looks more like construction and use regs. The highway code is the more important one.
The construction and use regs are what they build cars to. The highway code is not actually law. However if you cause an accident while not driving according to the highway code you will probably be done under the real laws the highway code is derived from. Also you may well leave yourself open to being sued, which doesn't require you to break any laws.
snipped-for-privacy@is10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
On your view of the facts, which was lacking experience fo the counter example.
Irrelevant I never implied that my experience was indicative if the general case. On the contrary, I was filling in your lack of knowledge to show that both examples (independent fog lights or interlocked with headlights) can be found
I didn't claim *most*. I simply gave a counter example to your claim that you knew of none.
I didn't make *any* claims. I recounted my experience.
You have a strange way of debating. No wonder you get so much flack.
MBQ
Splitting hairs, Charles. They refer to things which are law.
If there were no split hairs, Dennis would have nothing to argue over.
MBQ
messagenews: snipped-for-privacy@is10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...
Well your view of the facts would be wrong as there is no way you can know how many cars with fog lamps that work as I stated that I have seen. However I know exactly and its therefore a fact in my case.
Anyway it was only one example, I have seen others but not my cars so I have no idea if they were built like it or retro fitted later.
The construction and use regs do not require the headlights on with *fog* lamps.
the stupid ones fitted to some cars that are more than 400mm from the edge are not fog lamps and can't be used without the headlights.
My Toyota is such a car. Pretty sure my old Nissan was too.
Rear fogs require either/or headlights or front fogs.
Andy
Ah, this will be
It says in there you're not allowed to fit flashing lamps. As most of the new front running lights, and a lot of LED tail lights, flash at about 50Hz, these must be obsolete. I don't suppose you have the new ones?
Andy
snipped-for-privacy@l18g2000vbx.googlegroups.com...
How many is irrelevant.
I know *for a fact* that both situations exist. My factual knowledge is correct.
It was your assertion, and the implication that the person you replied to was wrong, quote "Do you mean the rear fogs, I know of none that have front fogs where you have to have the headlamps on as well. " that is at issue.
MBQ
That was a question and an indication of why I asked the question.
I also revise my previous answer, I still don't know of one that has front
*fog* lamps that don't work independently of the dipped headlights. AFAICS none of the ones quoted actually have front *fog* lamps that work only with the dipped headlamps according to the owners manuals that I have downloaded.I suspect that the ones that work only when the dipped headlights are on are
*not* fog lamps. They probably don't meet the construction and use regs for fog lamps. I have seen cars with what look like fog lights but they aren't close enough to the edges of the car so they *can't* be fog lights.So I guess I am asking you for evidence that there are cars with manufactures (anyone can fit ones that work either way if they want) *fog* lights that only work with the dipped headlights on.
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