joining a motorway

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

what really annoys me is punters overtaking you on the motorway then slowing down or slowing down to exit to exit.....

[mm0fmf]

Jim probably had his wife's panties on that time and wasn't concentrating on driving but on the undies.

[Harry Bloomfield, Esq.]

Jim GM4DHJ ... presented the following explanation :

Both! The indication helps to add to your visibility to those already on the motorway.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

what?...you will wear out the drive shafts etc doing that ....

...well I do in the mustang auto I never shift to park or neutral never put on my parking brake ...it keeps them awake and stops them driving into me and really buggering up the auto box.....

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

<Harry Bloomfield>; "Esq." [e-mail]> wrote in message news:qjello$d6l$ [e-mail]...

Nah totally unnecessary ....and stops you leaving the blinkers on ...

[NY]

Surely is it better to put the car into neutral than to hold it in drive on the footbrake. Or are automatics designed in a way that makes the act of putting into neutral worse than doing so in a manual?

Is there a way of staying in drive when you are stationary *without* having to keep your foot on the brake? Will the handbrake hold an automatic in drive, or is there a danger of the car creeping forward.

My driving instructor was adamant: "footbrake to make you stop; handbrake to stay stopped". And given that I loathe people (especially at night) who keep their foot on the footbrake, dazzling everyone behind, I'm not keen to have to do the same.

Why do automatics have a neutral position if you are not supposed to use it?

It's a shame that Park is the opposite side of reverse. When I see a car come to a halt and then see his reversing lights come on, I still think he's about to reverse into me, even though I should know that it's just an unfortunate side-effect of automatics and the order of the positions in the selector.

[Dave Liquorice]

Of course, it's the "magic indicator" that allows a joining car doing

40 mph to safely jo Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

• give priority to traffic already on the motorway * check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane * not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder * stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of

traffic before considering overtaking.

Note the first and second points. A great many people just put on their "magic indicator" and ignore both of those.

[nightjar]

Roadcraft, the Police driving manual, says you should indicate only when doing so will be of benefit to other road users. Following that rule means that you need to have assessed whether or not there is anybody around you who will benefit from your signal. That results in the driver having to be much more aware of the traffic and road conditions than if they simply signal everywhere.

[Roger Hayter]

May there not be a value to sentient beings not in cars in signalling ones intentions? Or do you not feel like bothering with those unlikely actually to do you harm if you hit them? Tha latter seems to be the attitude of many drivers.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

thanks...no mention of indicating .....

[The Natural Philosopher]

My elderly friend got in an auto, tried to reverse it up the slope to his garage, sat there on the handbrake let that off, put his foot down in reverse, nothing much happened so he put it down a bit more...

..and demolished the cotner of te garage.

Torque converters are simply not as controllable as a clutch, but left footed brakes are.

I drive an auto nearly all te time and have done for around 16 years now. It takes me ten minutes to rember not to use the clutch as a brake but after that it all comes back

Like being on tother side of the channel,. Takes about 15 minutes being Careful at Calais, then its maximum rabbit and straight on till morning

[The Natural Philosopher]

It probably is. Most auto drivers are not that good though. They hold te car on the footbrake

Remm,eber Jim is an arrant troll who talks utter bollox. Putting it into neutral or leaving it in gear makes no sodding difference to the drive shafts.

I usually ;ave it in gear either on foot or handbrake uynless ist known to be a long wait, when its time for neutral

It should do, yes. Mine does.

Your choice

Towing is one thing

Mm. yes.

[The Natural Philosopher]

You keep cahnging te point.

Obviouslyt you signal if someone can see it, in a car or on a street

My point is not when you signal, its about when you dont. When there is definitely no one to see it. Now for you surburbanites, thats probably 3% of the time, but I live in the country and its more like 80% of the time, especially as I try and avoid other vehicles and pick quiet roads.

Or do you not feel like bothering with those unlikely

It may be yours, but its not mine

>

[Swer]

A very silly thing to say.

And that is a pointless distraction from what you should be doing.

And that is a pointless distraction from what you should be doing.

It might have made some sense when drivers were still sticking their arms out the window to indicate what they are doing but makes no sense at all with modern car indicators.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

yes it does in an automatic ... and I am not a trioll .....and just because you are stupid and don't agree with me is your problem .....

[Dave Liquorice]

That's just as annoying as the prat using the "magic indicator" to join the motorway. It also reduces the capacity of the motorway by

1/3. IMHO the only time that moving into lane 2 to allow traffic to join is when you are doing > 60 and that traffic is a heavy. A heavy will struggle to get to 60 on the slip has a 60 limit anyway.

Use it all the time, to avoid speed creeping up above the limit, particulary 20 and 30. The car will do 30+ at tickover in 6th...

[NY]

Driving is all about assessing the situation constantly. It should be second nature to check *to the best of your ability* that what you are about to do is safe.

But Roadcraft's advice, sensible though it is, is naive: it should say "assess the situation, but get into the habit of indicating *anyway*, just in case you have incorrectly assessed it". If you tell other drivers what you are about to do, you at least warn them if you are about to get in their way so they can sound their horn, whereas if you don't indicate but still move (because you wrongly believe it is safe) you are not giving them advance warning before moving so they have chance to sound their horn.

OK, drivers who drive to the standards of Roadcraft are superhuman and, almost by definition, don't make mistakes, but most people aren't that good and so a system that is failsafe is needed.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

no no you want a speed limiter for that I had both on an old '98 merc auto I had .......much more use than a cruise control ....

[NY]

OK, so why do they make the selector with a neutral position between D and R, if using it will cause damage to the transmission? If you are at complete rest, is N and different from P in terms of load on the engine side of the gearbox, apart from the fact that P additionally engages a locking pawl on the output shaft.

I'm not trying to score points: I'm genuinely intrigued. I would expect that an N position (or a P position) would disengage the engine from the transmission to stop the constant churning of the fluid in the torque converter. If it's not intended to be used like neutral in a manual gearbox, what *is* its purpose? Is it simply there as a buffer between the opposite directions of D and R, without the intention of remaining in N while the car is stationary?

I've never tested this, for obvious reasons, but do automatic transmissions have any form of blocking logic which will prevent the selector going into the R or P position (or else allowing it but having no effect) when the car is travelling forwards? In the same way that some manual gearboxes (*) will not allow reverse to be selected while the car is still travelling forwards slightly without having completely come to rest, whereas others (**) allow it and leave it to the driver's common sense not to let the clutch in until the car has stopped.

(*) eg my wife's Honda

(**) eg the various Peugeots, VWs and Renaults that I have owned

[Vir Campestris]

I had a hire car in Canada recently that had a brake hold feature. Stop, take your foot of the brake, and it will stay there.

Then I realised it did this with the brake lights on.

OTOH being Canada there was only someone behind me about 3 times!

Andy