It could be that the countries which use BS1363 plugs also happen to have fewer idiots than those that don't, but I rather doubt that's the reason it's gtenerally regarded as the safest plug in the world.
Not to mention the 6 months in prison and £5000 fine for anyone importing them into the UK.
On 09 Aug 2005 20:21:59 GMT,it is alleged that snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
The world *finally* went crazy. 6months and a fine for a plug?
It's aimed at stopping importers from importing non-compliant goods. It seems to work -- it's sufficiently rare to come across a non-conforming 13A plug in the UK that most people have never seen one at all.
The main market for non-conforming 13A plugs were cheap goods made in China for Hong Kong residents to buy when visiting and take home to Hong Kong. However, the Hong Kong authorities have started becoming more strict with this insisting on full BS1363 compliance, and it may be the market for non-conforming
13A plugs becomes too small to remain viable.It was interesting to see how expensive that non-conforming cordset was -- more expensive than conforming ones in the UK.
On 09 Aug 2005 21:52:20 GMT,it is alleged that snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
I am hoping the fine is for 'importing and offering for sale' rather than aimed at the hapless tourist who obtains one while overseas for whatever reason. (I think this is probably the case.)
I do recall coming across a batch of these in 1991 or 92, while doing safety tests on new IT equipment. They turned up with a batch of printers from the middle east (I believe iraq uses BS1363 /style/ outlets). Possibly due to 'oh, iraq is now the bad guy, we have to offload these cords somewhere'. The cord was BASEC approved, and the IEC connector was fine, so we fitted MK toughplugs, 5A fuses, and billed for it. Also noted is the lack of sleeving on the prongs, and likely non-electrical grade metal used for the pins.
Yup. Should be the death sentence. Since only wallies like Jim seem think it a good idea.
Every appliance capable of being plugged into a ring main in the UK comes already fitted with a suitably fused 13 amp plug. By law. Those - domestically - that aren't, like some cookers and showers need permanent wiring in the form of a radial, and why not since they're unlikely to be moved to other rooms. If you really want them to be plugged in rather than hard wired, then suitable BS connectors are available. At a price. Look at any commercial kitchen for a clue.
The snag comes with some possibly domestic hobby appliances like large arc welders and air compressors which fall outside the 13 amp limit, but are readily available. Let Darwin's law apply for those so foolish to spend lots of money on those, but expect to modify the wiring on them to use them on the 13 amp socket in their garage. They're just more wallies.
Yes although you would be very wise to work out in advance how you could show you do not "possess for supply" (Plugs and Sockets Regs 1994, Consumer Protection Act 1987), i.e. it's for your use. However, Customs can still confiscate and destroy (not sure what Act that would be under -- probably something to do with importing unsafe goods), and there may be potential penalties too.
I have lots of plugs with no sleeving, is that part of the Standard?
And non-electrical grade metal? Wassatallabahtden?
The basis for this is the regulations surrounding the use of the CE mark on many products, certainly electrical stuff.
The wording in the EU Directives is "placing on the market" and applies to a manufacturer or representative such as a distributor.
It has been interpreted differently in different countries and the policing done in different ways. The UK has taken the view that it means importing and selling and is policed mainly by exception. This has meant that Trading Standards shoulder most of the responsibility for that and that it is mainly policing by exception. Thus, in practice, import for own use does not trigger anything, and probably the import and sale of the odd cord here and there. Other countries have policing by Customs and that is a different proposition.
In practice, in the UK, there have been few prosecutions related to sale of products not conforming to standards. It is more likely that these would happen in the event of something bad happening.
It is now. You cannot sell such appliances without changing the plugs first. That even applies if you take them along to a car boot sale to sell yourself or to a fate.
Unsleeved pins are not a cause for a PAT test fail, although some companies have a policy to replace such plugs during PAT testing. The even older 13A plugs without the base broadening near the live and neutral pins is a PAT test failure, although you are very unlikely to find any of these nowadays.
Dunno. Many not solid brass bins?
Actually, illegal plugs is one of the things Trading Standards are quite proactive on. It tends to be done at point of sale rather than at import though.
Plugs and Sockets Regs breaches accounted for 15 prosecutions over the 5 year period up to 2003.
On 09 Aug 2005 23:08:58 GMT,it is alleged that snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
The type of brass usually used for plug pins is high conductivity and has a slight 'give' to it compared to some other alloys. I have found with cheaper plugs they sometimes seem to have pins made of an alloy more closely akin to the old Yale keys, which is very brittle and can snap far more easily.
It certainly is in the US.
They seem to fit into BS1363 sockets and effectively bypass a linchpin of the BS1363 system.
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I don't think they are a good idea, I was just pointing out their existence as a failure in the BS1363 design approach.
What are "wallies", I assume it is derogatory, it does not show up on the first few pages of Google, nor a standard dictionary?
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Wally is china. Your granny might have lived in a tenement with a wally close (the common stair having tiled walls which was a bit posher than painted) and had wally dugs on the mantlepiece. She also probably had wallies which she kept in a glass of water beside the bed (china i.e. false teeth).
Owain
So you have one socket outlet per radial circuit? How incredibly wasteful of cable etc and this also means the vast majority of households won't have adequate numbers of sockets and rely on unsafe extension leads for what are in effect permanent installations.
You can probably find cheap copy brake pads for your car where the pad material is totally unsuitable, but will fit. Would you think this a good idea for your car, and therefore the safety of your family? And it doesn't take many seconds to think of similar things where unscrupulous makers sell totally unsafe products.
Any single socket on a circuit is capable of the full capacity of the circuit.
Sometimes, not usually.
As a minimum a socket is required to be within 6 feet horizontally of everyplace along a wall in residential rooms. Above the kitchen work tops in is 2 feet.
This thread was about idiot proof designs.
I was merely pointing out how resourceful some idiots appear to be.
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Err, please explain this. If you have a 10 amp socket (for example) the radial must be protected by a 10 amp MCB, etc. If you have more than one
10 amp socket, then either the radial will trip if you try to load both to 10 amps, or a 20 amp MCB and wiring would allow a 10 amp socket to be overloaded by your resident idiot.So just how many ways does the average US CU or whatever contain?
You just can't make things idiot proof where unscrupulous manufacturers are allowed to sell products which contravene standards. And fools buy them.
Trading Standards in the UK would come down very hard on anyone selling such things - and rightly so.
You seem to be pointing out the beauty of a so called 'free market' economy where anyone can sell anything.
Drugs which claim to cure cancer? Drugs which say on the box are 'X' and look like it but are chalk? Is this what you want?
On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 19:28:07 +0100,it is alleged that "Dave Plowman (News)" spake thusly in uk.d-i-y:
I am sure Jim will come back with answers on this, but from my knowledge the answers are as follows:
[snip]
Usually US outlets are 15A rated on a 15 or 20A circuit, (A 20A circuit MUST contain more than one outlet). The average varies depending on age of the property, but is probably 4-5 outlets + a light or 2 per circuit.
Diversity means breaker trips are relatively rare, much as with a UK ring, only on a smaller scale.
[snip]
Current NEC requirements specify a maximum of 42 ways (the panel is usually around 18" by 2'6"). Canadian codes allow for > 42 ways in a lighting and general power panel.
Older 60 or 100 amp services may have as few as 12 ways.
[snip]Certainly the US system is in no way idiot proof, it contains more shortcomings than the UK system in respect of potential overloads through abuse, and it is also simpler to abuse (no chunks of 6" nail required). However (Just IMHO) when abused, the UK system is more capable of damage due to the higher power levels available, 32A @ 230v as opposed to 20A @ 120v, both however are more than capable of starting a fire.
You are basically correct.
Clearer phrasing... Any SINGLE socket or a combination of sockets on a circuit can be loaded to the rating of the circuit.
In new construction a very small house would have 100amp service with a 20 or 30 way panel.
Normal sized homes get 200amp service with 40 way panels. Many of the suburbs around Chicago have mandated this as a minimum.
A four bedroom suburban house with gas heating and cooking might get a
40 way and a 20 way.My house (5,000 sq. ft.) has a 400amp service (96kW) and four 40 way panels. This is admittedly way over the top.
Aaron Spelling's home likely has it's own substation and dozens of 40 way panels for it's 123 rooms.
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big snip of interesting exchanges ...
I've been browsing at the posts in this thread ... it suddenly dawned on me, why - in most USAian TV shows - albeit mostly filmed in Canada :) - whenever somebody is offered tea, the actor pours water from a kettle boiling on a hob. I can't remember when I, or my acquaintances, didn't use an electric kettle - hang on ! I _do_ remember! It was in 1987! On the morning of the hurricane strike; I uncovered the kettle from the back of the cupboard -blew off the dust - and put in on the gas hob ... course I had to strike a match 'cos the 'leccy was off!
Different folks, different volts/stokes - different appliances!
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