Hybrid Cars

** snip two halt-wit senile idiots **
Reply to
Doctor Drivel
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You mean he bore false witness? I'm devastated....

Reply to
Andy Hall

Lithium Polymer (one of the best candidates for this - as you yourself have stated) has an energy density of 166Wh/kg[1]

Petrol is of the order of 12000-13000Wh/kg[2][3] depending on the source.

I make this about 70-80 times more efficient to carry your energy in petrol than a battery if you ignore the fact that the fuel gets used up. Assume that the tank averages a half-empty state you are about 150 times better off.

Out of interest diesel is about 13% better as far as gravimetric energy density is concerned[3]

Refs: [1]

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Reply to
Matt Beard

Don't confuse his (dribble) poor little brain with figures. He only 'understands' them if they're in adverts.

There will never be a storage battery that competes with petrol on an energy per given weight basis.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)
** snip shit kicker tripe **

Matt, you can recover from your devastation. The Shit Kicker is very confused.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Lithium Polymer (one of the best candidates for this - as you yourself have stated) has an energy density of 166Wh/kg[1]

Petrol is of the order of 12000-13000Wh/kg[2][3] depending on the source.

I make this about 70-80 times more efficient to carry your energy in petrol than a battery if you ignore the fact that the fuel gets used up. Assume that the tank averages a half-empty state you are about 150 times better off.

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

** snip dribbling senility **
Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Indeed. Until you fit it with batteries capable of giving a 500 mile range at 70+ mph.

If all you want is a short range town car all these weight savings can be incorporated in an IC design too. Just how much do you think a powerful motor bike power unit weighs?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Amazing! Is he learning at last? Is he turning over a new leaf? Is he becoming civilised? Encouraging. We shall see.

** snip senility **
Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Sorry to disappoint but Hydrogen can easily be produced without fossil fuel .... water is typically used (H2O) either catalyse or electrolyse off the oxygen, and you have clean Hydrogen. (or Plasma arc process of Kv=E6rner Engineering) I know that industrial processes for Hydrogen then recirculate the Oxygen to produce the energy for the process.

Presently there are also processes for bulk steam reforming of natural gas or methane

OK it can be argued that you are probably using fossil fuel to produce the electricity for any electrolytic process - but there are workarounds for that.

If you want more details look at:

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discuss a hugely efficient process (almost 100%) with 1005 usable output products.

Reply to
Rick

"Please also note that because of the staggering loss of exergy, use of electrolysis for bulk hydrogen apps is a really, really dumb thing to do. It is the equivalent of exchanging two US dollars for one Mexican peso."

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Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Drivel gets a new sock. Film at 11.

Reply to
Huge

So did Dribble on July 20th 2005

"The Prius now has a conventional CVT"

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Reply to
Matt

Reply to
Doctor Drivel

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Not totally true. By operating heat engines at better efficiencies (and powerstations are in general better than cars) yiou can get overall better efficiencies.

Also car engines ae at their most effint (petrol ones) at mid to high thtrottle settings. And zero efficiency idleing in traffic, The hybrid exploits this somewhat to gain slight net gains.

Diesels are most efficient at lower part throttle settings.

If we do indeed build a load more nuclear power stations then electric cars will be the best way to utilise that.

Current cutting edge battery technology is able to deliver 2-300 mile range at reasonable weight and charge times but not yet at reasonable cost, and there are some safety issues.

That is likely to impove drastically in the next few years though.

Fuel cells using hydrogen have only one advantage over those...'fill up time' - in every other way they are likley to be almost impractical.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Broadly yes. Good small diesel trin a light pedal settings at 40-60mph will beat a hybrid under similar conditions.

Stick in traffic, the hybrid scores. The engine is either off, or charging the battery at a fairly efficient point on its power curve.

Probably decrease, if only because of the reduced performance.;)

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Actually it is.

The power stations are essentially idling at the great traffic lights of consumer demand. Since they take a LOT of hours to come on line, they have to be left at idle.

Overnight charging of cars wold make a LOT of difference in sommothing out demand curves for electricity,and utilse the existing infratsructure to far greater overall cost benefit.

Yes. biut not because its capacity thats is not earning revenue, its becasue it is capacity that is costing money and fuel to keep running.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

well lemme see..the best battery I have as 22 watt hours roughly and weighs...rushing to scales...150g..and costs about 50 quid so thats 6.6Kwh. for 45kg.

I reckon 30KWh is about what you need for a 300 mile range lighweight electric 'shopping trolley' with a 300 mile range. About £50,000 quid. :-)

Say 250kg. About the same as a conventional car engine and transmission and cooling system.

In this case Drivel has randomly hit upon a real factoid.

Adequate batterys are available,

But not yet, at sensible prices.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

They do actually...just.

If you factor in the 20% averag efficiency of a car engine and the 80% efficiency of an electric motor, it all can be done.

As I said, I reckon 30KWh for a small car is about the same as 30 quids worth of petrol.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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