How to fix these in place?

Plan is to fit timber bars under open stair steps to reduce the gaps to mee t BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'
m not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail thr ough the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the sta ir is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's eas y to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly ? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place wi thout being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into positio n. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment. Id eas welcome!
NT
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meet BR. They'll be positioned in the middle of the space up-down-wise. But I'm not seeing how they can be fixed. The right side is easy, a slim nail through the string into the end of the bar. But the left outer side of the stair is inaccessible, so not clear how one could fix them there. Yes it's easy to do so it looks bad, eg with little L brackets, but how to do it neatly? The problem with using a dowel is that the bar has to slide into place without being angled, so it would not be possible to get a dowel into position. 2 nails at an angle through the bar into the string is an option, but my experience with nailguns is that the bars will end up out of alignment. Ideas welcome!

Skewed screws, counter bored for heads and the hole filled?
--

Roger Hayter

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On Monday, 6 January 2020 23:44:47 UTC, Roger Hayter wrote:

Yeah, I reckon so.
NT
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Or screw some timber under the tread?
https://images.app.goo.gl/8UBZ7msYs6PWtfsw8
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I think that would look a lot better than an “extra bar”.
Tim
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Please don't feed the trolls

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On Mon, 6 Jan 2020 15:22:46 -0800 (PST) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Some sort of biscuit joint at the difficult string?
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On 06/01/2020 23:22, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

A dowel would not actually be that difficult - drill the initial hole in the stringer at a slight angle, and then straighten the drill as you reach full depth. In effect creating a squashed conical hole - with some slop near the surface in the front to back sense. That should allow the down to enter at an angle, but then straighten and tighten as it bottoms out.

Rail end sockets used with a bar:
https://www.screwfix.com/p/smith-locke-rail-end-sockets-brushed-nickel-25mm-2-pack/5008v#_=p
--
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John.
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On Tuesday, 7 January 2020 03:04:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

A few people seem to have misunderstood this. It's not possible to angle the bar more than marginally when inserting it, so any solution relying on sticking one end in then the other won't work.

That would work, but it would look awful against what's already there.
NT
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On 08/01/2020 19:53, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Perhaps a diagram / photo would help?
Could you for example route a recess for the bar end that allows it to be inserted deeper than required for assembly before being withdrawn slightly for final fix?
--
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John.
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On Wednesday, 8 January 2020 21:11:53 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

No. And if I tried, patches of raw wood amid dark would look awful. I'll use angled screw/nails, it seems to be the only workable option.
NT
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On 08/01/2020 19:53, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I'm late into this so apology if this has already been suggested.
You need something like this, Ive use mine to good effect.
Silverline Pocket Hole Screw Jig c/w Dowel Drill Sets Screw Joint Hole Tools | eBay https://ebay.us/k3T2tJ
Mike
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On Thursday, 9 January 2020 09:55:23 UTC, Muddymike wrote:

I can't think why I'd need that, and isn't the angle too shallow? A bit of card will make a template for marking where to drill so they're all the same. Plan to drill at nearer 45 degrees.
NT
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On 09/01/2020 18:00, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

No, its just right :-)

The point of a pocket hole jig is it makes strong joints quickly and repeatedly. While it all also make them consistent such that they line up, that is not the main selling point.
The pocket hole has a flat bottom, which when used with the correct pocket hole screws[1], will give a much stronger joint that will not tend to split the end of the wood in the same way that driving a normal wood screw at an angle will.
Ideally you need one with a proper profiled pocket hole drill bit with the shoulder on it:
https://ebay.us/hmjePW
[1] e.g. with pan/wafer head, not countersunk:
https://ebay.us/OXSnHZ
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John.
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On Thursday, 9 January 2020 20:42:33 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

I realise the shoulder with raised head is a plus for strength, but the sha llow angle is a minus. It would either leave a thin bit of wood one side of the screw or the screw would be huge to get anywhere near the centre for b etter strength. A countersunk hole plus not overtightening does the job wel l enough.
NT
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On 10/01/2020 01:39, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

The angle is such that when you place a pocket hole on the end of a 19mm bit of wood/ply the screw will emerge from the end approximately in the middle of the thickness, and the part of the screw that penetrates the adjacent panel, will remain within the footprint of the end of the timber with the pocket hole.
--
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John.
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On Friday, 10 January 2020 23:53:01 UTC, John Rumm wrote:

Yup. I'm using 44mm. Main thing with an angled screw is to countersink & not tighten it up too much. It's sorted now.
NT
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On 09/01/2020 18:00, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Depending on access, I would take a block of scrap wood, drill a hole through it at 45 degrees and then clamp it to what you want to drill to act as a drill guide. In my experience attempting to keep a fixed angle using a card guide with a drill freehand is difficult. With a pre-drilled scrap of wood the drill bits keep going at the correct angle.
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On Friday, 10 January 2020 13:12:01 UTC, alan_m wrote:

I measured the point to drill then went in freehand. It doesn't matter if there's a bit of variation on angle.
NT
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A dowel in a deep hole with a coil spring behind it?
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Spring loaded dowels?
<https://www.berger-tools.co.uk/Indexing_Plungers_Locking_Pins__Spring_Plungers_/Gn610_Spring_Loaded_Shell_Steel_Or_Stainless_Steel <https://www.fdbonline.co.uk/products/245-9303?_pos $&_sid07fc399&_ss=r> <https://shutterplus.co.uk/product/louvre-pins-hidden-tilt-rod
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