How to open this cleanout?

[MiamiCuse]

I have a 40 year old cast iron sewer line and there is a cleanout in the middle of my concrete driveway.

I believe it is a two way cleanout (with two openings) like this:

However, it obviously has not been opened for ages, and it obviously was cemented over last time the driveway was redone however many years ago.

I need to open it up for drain cleaning and video inspection purposes, and I could not figure out how to open it.

A close up:

Even closer on one of them:

The cement has to be quite thin considering if you look close enough, you can actually see the metal rim flushed with the concrete driveway, although it is surprising that the rim is so thin...

My assumption is that right underneath this thin layer of cement is a cast iron or brass plug I can unscrew and open the access to the pipe. My worry is the plug threads may be corroded or stuck...but I can't even get to the first base.

I took a chisel and hammer and banged on the concrete inside the circles, I chipped off some concrete bits. I banged on it more, the concrete did NOT just shattered away and expose the metal plug, it almost felt like this concrete is much deeper.

I don't want to keep hammering at it because it will certainly ruin the metal plug thread or wedge it tight if I over do it.

I now wonder if I am not looking at brass plugs. Is it possible that there is no plug? That the pipes were "sawed off" flushed with the concrete driveway and they stuffed some newspaper or whatever to plug the holes without dropping to the bottom, then pour concrete in that space?

How do I open this up without being totally destructive? If there is nothing there and I break things loose, it will drop to the bottom of the pipe for sure.

My next step is to dry a masonry bit and drill down the middle and see how far it goes, but I thought I will post this here and get a few pointers first.

Thanks,

MC

[John Grabowski]

*The round one looks as though someone made a homemade concrete plug and access hole. Have you tried prying around with screwdrivers and chisels to get it to lift up?

[dpb]

...

Yeah, that isn't cast drain, that's a thin wall tubing section.

I'd personally doubt it has anything to do w/ sanitary sewer; more like a drive storm drain entrance.

There ain't no plug nor threads--there ain't enough material there to house them.

...

...

I'd almost bet that's the case and you're not going to find anything useful even if you bore them out 'cuz (as above) I'd have to be shown they were somehow connected to the sanitary sewer before I'd have a go at 'em.

--

[EXT]

It is possible that someone ran a thin metal pipe over the cleanout top to raise up the the finished concrete level. I would check if the metal edge, that you can see, and determine if it is cast iron (brittle, will chip) or sheet steel (will bend and crush).

Be carefull as masonry bits can drill through brass relatively easily. I would drill a few small holes not too deep and keeping an eye on the color of the dust, and then try chipping out between them with a chisel.

[Joe]

[MiamiCuse]

It cannot be a storm drain. A storm drain would have the surrounding sloping to it. This is located along the plane of the driveway. The diameter of it is about 4", so it's too small for a storm drain.

That is a good point. That makes it even more puzzling. Thanks.

[MiamiCuse]

I see what you mean, so when they pour the new driveway it is higher. They did not want to properly raise the cleanout but also did not want to totally bury it so they put a "collar" around it to raise it. Geeez if that is the case this would be a complicated one to deal with.

[MiamiCuse]

You mean to get a 4" hole saw and saw on the outside of these 4" holes or saw the inside of the hole?

[dpb]

MiamiCuse wrote: ...

...

That is a possibility--again, are you _positive_ this is a reasonable spot for sanitary sewer cleanout? Secondly, are you actually having trouble; if so, what kind?

If this is what they did, they didn't do you any favors for sure--should have inserted a ring or a double-walled section or similar to get access.

Do know something about whether the driveway was repoured and raised that would substantiate that hypothesis?

Whatever they did, it certainly is clear that what you're looking at isn't the sewer line/cleanout itself.

--

[Tony]

Looks like they are home made plugs so you can access the pipe below. Forget using a chisel and only use a masonry bit if you have a hammer drill. If I didn't have a hammer drill, I would use a 1/2" star bit to remove the concrete around the edges and keep trying to pry them up. Just ask at the hardware store for a 1/2" star bit, it may not look like much but it's 1,000 times better than a chisel, they really do work. I wouldn't worry about ruining the sheet metal, that was probably just a form for when the concrete was poured. And seriously, wear safety goggles! When all is said and done you can patch the holes and make better plugs for the next time. Oh, if you happen to post another pic, lay a ruler there so we know the size. Or of course you could measure it and tell us how large around they are.

Tony

MiamiCuse wrote:

[Doug Miller]

I agree, no plug, no threads -- but I don't think it's any kind of thin-wall tubing, either.

I think it's a Campbell's soup can.

[Doug Miller]

Sure doesn't look like a sewer cleanout to me. And that would be an odd place to put one, too. Why do you think that's what it is?

[MiamiCuse]

Location wise yes. I am trying to determine where the line is exactly, and the CO locations made sense. The separation of the two holes are also approximately consistent with a cast iron SV two way cleanout.

[MiamiCuse]

I do have a hammer drill. The holes are roughly 4" in diameter.

I am just worried that if I drill through and I cannot pull the concrete out, and I have to break it into pieces it will drop down into the pipe.

[MiamiCuse]

(1) The diameter is 4", consistent with the size of my cast iron line. (2) The separation between them is about the same as a cast iron SV two way cleanout. (3) On the concrete it's marked with the letters "C.O.". (4) One of my sewer lines that exit the house has no cleanout. I know it goes under the driveway, but not sure where.

[HeyBub]

Time for a bizarre suggestion:

Drill a hole and insert an expansion bolt. Attach one end of a chain to the bolt and the other to a bumper jack. Yank out the concrete plug.

Well, I said it was bizarre...

[Mike rock]

A few questions:

If indeed that is your cleanout, it has to sit lower( sloped downward) than the pipe that leaves your house. That will give you an idea how deep in the ground it is. When the last visible pipe leaves your house, where is it in relation to the floor? Is it a foot below ground, above ground? And also how far away is the cleanout and the pipe that leaves the house?

If you cannot get the cleanout opened, is there a way to put in a cleanout in the pipe leaving the house so you don't have to go through that trouble with the concrete?

Do you have any problems now that you must get it opened? If not, I would just leave it for now.

[dpb]

Doug Miller wrote: ...

:)

Sure it isn't Van Camp's pork and beans???

--

[Tony]

I would think the pipe down below has covers on the holes and the sheet metal tubes were a crappy idea for future access. If you are still worried then rent a 6 inch masonry hole saw and after the outside blade starts to cut a circle in the concrete, stop and remove the center pilot bit of the hole saw so it doesn't drill through the drain plug.

Tony

[Ashton Crusher]

The one with the grass tuff in it looks like the remnants of a basketball post that was filled with concrete. Very possible that before the driveway was there it was used to play basketball.