How Much More Do You Have to Pay?

[TheScullster]

OK somewhat OT this but...

Looking at the previous thread on "Lifetime of a Fridge/Freezer" I just wondered how much more you would have to pay to get a product that would be good for ten years minimum. ISTR Andy Hall being a great advocate of Miele products and his opinion was held in high esteem by most in this group. Their products used to carry a ten year guarantee IIRC but now maybe not so.

So, if you bought a washing machine 30 years ago (say) it would likely have been less sophisticated and probably more rhobustly engineered. I suppose a key question is "Can you have increased sophistication without a loss of reliability?". If the answer to this is no, then I guess we are resigned to repairs/replacement over a shorter life cycle. But if it is possible to build reliable sophistication, then how much would it cost to achieve this and to build the entire machine to last 10-15 years for instance?

Personally I would consider paying 50-75% more for a product that will definitely last 10 years (hopefully more) instead of 5. The aggro of pricing, arranging delivery and even fitting if it's integrated or whatever is enough to make me want white goods to last. But then I'm not that interested in having the latest "must have" gadgets.

Phil

[Donwill]

My parents'' first washing machine was a front loading Bendix purchased in approx 1953, an extremely reliable machine as long as you kept the gear box topped up with oil.. :-) It lasted for years until the casing rusted away.

I second that, which is why I purchased a Miele in the first place, but I was sadly disappointed. I assume you saw my link

in the previous thread, there is a history there.

I'll drink to that

Cheers Don

[djc]

White goods are a mature product, I don't think there is anything to add in terms of sophistication. 'Sophistication' just means gimicks and more poorly designed innovations to fail. Modern manufacturing ought to be able to make the same basic components with greater precision and quality control. So there might be an increased cost for quality raw materials. The problem seems to be the prevailing accountants' and marketeers' view of business. Sell shiny, sell cheap, sell often.

The price of things has fallen relative to incomes. I suppose if we were prepared to pay as much as our parents and grandparent for things which were once considered luxuries we would insist on them lasting a lifetime.

[TheScullster]

"djc" wrote

Good point - it may be that we would need to pay not 50% more but 500% more for true "quality"!

Phil

[The Natural Philosopher]

..and insist that they were fully repairable.

[Tony]

A couple of years ago I looked into this for a company I worked at (name withheld to protect the guilty)

To go for premium materials would double the costs of the bill of materials. However, a 100% increase in materials only resulted in something like a 30% increase in the overall cost to produce and a similar increase in sales cost.

Rough estimates on lifespan would have increased it from 3-5 years to a minimum of 10 years with a gut feel that 20 years would be achievable.

No-one was interested in stocking it.

[RobertL]

My parents bought the same; they bought it second hand 1957. It was still in the kitchen (bolted to the floor) in 2003 when I inherited the house.

You could open the door during the spin cycle to allow the air to blow through :-)

Robert

[Donwill]

Was it still working,? it must have been approx 50yrs old.

My Father was fascinated with it, he used to sit in front of it watching the clothes go round. Then he had a B&W TV :-) Don

[Tabby]

For a reliable fridge freezer, I've had fancy brands and cheap ones, and the cheap brands havent lasted any less well.

NT

[PeterC]

Well, 100% more perhaps

[Michael Chare]

From the point of view of the customer, it is very difficult to judge how long a product will last just viewing it in a shop, unless it is offered with an appropriate warranty.

[Owain]

We didn't have telly, and I had to sit on top of the spindryer to stop it skating round the kitchen. This was rather important as it drained into a washing-up bowl on the floor.

There was a knack of opening the door enough to stop the motor but not far enough to stick fingers in while the drum was still spinning, that had to be co-ordinated with the filling of the bowl.

Owain

[jgharston]

I bought a Mercedes 1100 in 1993:

going strong and working perfectly. The Kalashnikov of vacuum cleaners. Strip it into three parts, dunk into sink, scrub clean, reassemble.

JGH

[The Natural Philosopher]

Of course not - 1/3rd of the turnover plus 30% price increase.. I make that a drop to 44% of annualised turnover. Salesmen are thick, but not that thick.

>

[Tony]

Exactly. That's why you're not going to see high quality, long lasting goods in shops - it's not in the interests of the shops to stock them.

[Theo Markettos]

It can be made in the interests of shops, but expect to pay a much larger proportion of their overheads due to low turnover. People don't want to do that.

I recall seeing a Which? article on cookers from 1984. The bottom-of-the-range recommended cooker was £200. In the 2004 Argos catalogue, the bottom-of-the-range cooker was £200. There's been quite a bit of inflation since 1984. So your modern cooker is a lot more cheaply made.

I was told by a Miele service engineer that even they don't make 'em like they used to. And it's true: comparing 1980s machines with 2000s machines, the 80s versions are sturdier and better made. And with a little TLC (thermostat here, seal there) have lasted 25 years.

The other issue is parts. The automotive industry has an excellent supply chain: want a fuel filter for a 1959 Mini, your nearest auto factors can probably get one, if it isn't in stock already, or there are dozens on eBay. Want a rubber seal for a 1980s dishwasher, you might find it difficult. For starters, there's minimal aftermarket parts supply beyond vacuum bags. Miele are excellent in this respect, but cost a packet. As with cars, the cheapest way is to buy a second machine and rob it for parts, but not everyone has the space to do that. And it doesn't help with perishables.

Theo

[Tim Lamb]

Hah!

Not white goods but the pair of wellies I purchased from my BM at £7.95 purport to be made by Dunlop CE.

Waterproof so far but... as you walk they flex and make a noise like high heels on a stone floor. The other issue is age related. These particular boots flop at the ankles when unworn. So what? Try standing on one leg, holding the boot top open and at the same time folding the trouser bottom to allow insertion.... Now try it when you are my age:-(

regards

[Andrew Gabriel]

My parents bought an English Electric Liberator well before I was born

still had it into my 30's, and there was nothing wrong with it when they got rid of it. It was quite complicated inside, as it predated motor speed control, and had a sodding great gearbox, with large mains solenoids around it to do the gear changing. I still recall the loud bangs as it went through its gear changes, particulary for spinning. The only thing I recall going wrong with it was the slip clutch failing (a large spring wrapped around the drive shaft which gripped tightly in one direction and slipped in the other direction to allow the drum to spin down without reverse driving the gearbox). Dad repaired it.

It also had a sodding great mains transformer in it, as they bought it when the local mains voltage was 200V, and it got converted to

240V when the area was converted.

[Huge]

Oh, I don't. It's intersting to see how many domestic appliances are broken in the show-room - hinges, catches, drawers, etc. A salesman in JL told us that they had to have the (unlamented) Dyson washing machines mended about once a week because bits fell off them. If the manufacturers can't get that right, can you imagine what the unseen bits inside are like?

[nimbusjunk]

This applies perfectly to Bosch Fridge Freezers The polish made ones fall to bits litterly after 3 years