House survey and electrics

[Jim K...]

Which still won't lift carpets nor floorboards & will be equally choc full of suggestive arse covering phrases that insurance co.s live to squirm with given a chance.

[Jim K...]

Get your own survey done from your pov?

[David]

I'm just reading a survey report which includes the wording

"As this is a change of ownership, it is essential that the electrical wiring is checked by an electrician, preferably NICEIC registered, in order to outline any remedial works necessary to achieve compliance with the up to date regulations."

Is there any regulation which says that on change of ownership the wiring should be brought up to current regulations?

This seems to be what the wording implies.

As far as I know the surveyor can recommend updating, but there is no absolute requirement.

Cheers

Dave R

[David]

Also. the boiler is an old floor standing one. The wording states:

"The boiler is not a room sealed appliance and consequently is potentially dangerous. I would not advise that the boiler is used until it has been inspected (condition rating 3 and see section J3 Risks)."

This seems a bit extreme. Standard butt covering or a real risk?

Cheers

Dave R

[Fredxx]

That goes further than covering arse.

Condition rating 3 ? defects that are serious and/or need to be repaired, replaced or investigated urgently

If an engineer is called and there are no defect I would send the surveyor the bill. He may, of course, be right. Have you blocked any air vents?

[David]

Oh, and:

"The current arrangement of the conservatory is not compliant with the Building Regulations and will need to be altered accordingly if the accommodation is to be classed as being compliant."

As far as I know the older bits should be "grandfathered" in, and have no legal requirement to be brought up to current building regulations. Insulation requirements are below current - glazed with a plastic roof and has a radiator in so is part of the main property - which wouldn't be allowed by current regs.

These look very much like weasel words to bump up the cost of repairs. It doesn't actually say that you are legally required to do the work; just implies it by "if the accommodation is to be classed as compliant". Which as far as I can see there is no legal requirement unless you undertake major structural work and have to bring the rest of the property up to current regs.

I may be reading too much into this, of course.

Cheers

Dave R

[Jeff Layman]

The new owner may find that their buildings insurance for the new property depends on them complying with any recommendations in the surveyors support. Even if the wiring itself complies, the insurance company may ask for the CU to be brought up-to-date if it is old, or anything else which they consider could be a risk.

[Fredxx]

The survey is commissioned by the buyers, the surveyor is using words for them, so provide some bargaining power.

If they have agreed a a price then personally I would likely not budge on price and put it back on the market if they're not going to commit.

Remember they have paid for the survey and probably don't want to shell out for another survey on another house with potentially the same result.

It's your call, of course.

[David]

Assuming, of course, that the insurance company gains access to the report. This isn't a usual thing as far as I know. A mortgage company may place conditions for granting a mortgage if a valuation survey is more than a drive by and turns up some issues. I don't think I've ever seen an insurance company do that. Then again I might have been lucky with my insurance companies.

Cheers

Dave R

[David]

This is an equitable rather than contentious negotiation.

We are trying to work out which items are genuinely a problem, and which are just the surveyor trying to bet the price down for their client.

Which is why I am asking to confirm which phrases are flannel and which reflect real legislation.

Most houses on resale will not comply with current building regulations.

Houses built before 1900 probably don't comply with any!

Cheers

Dave r

[Steve Walker]

Heating in a conservatory is still allowed, as far as I am aware - the requirement is for it to have independent controls. In our case timer/stat and a motorised valve (although we would have fallen under the old rules by two days anyway) ... just like every other room in the house!

Stevew

[Michael Chare]

The boiler needs to have an air supply if it is not room sealed. Typically a vent which should not be closed. It also should not leak fumes.

[Fredxx]

It is something they can ask for in advance of a payout.

[RJH]

The caveats look to be capable of wild interpretation to the point of being meaningless. 'Current regulations' might just mean that current regulations do not apply. The exception is the conservatory - not sure what's meant there.

Whatever, if any any mortgage is linked to that survey, the issues raised will have to be sorted out before a sale can proceed.

Cheers, Rob

[Brian Gaff]

I've never heard of that. I think, though its wise to at least get a safety check especially if you are moving in with young children, also if a kitchen has the signs of recent installation get that very well checked. The sister of a well known person was killed by a botched up junction box in a new kitchen fitted on the cheap to help the resale value.

Brian

[Jeff Layman]

And that is the point. The "raison d'etre" of an insurance company is to pay out as little as possible using whatever means possible.

We were caught out by a surveyor report's throwaway comment about the wiring being old and so would benefit from a check by a qualified electrician. And that's what led to us needing a new CU as the old one was obsolete and the RCD couldn't be updated. The annoying thing is that all this was not what we expected; we had bought a property which had been underpinned due to subsidence (over 15 years earlier), and that's what the insurance company said they were interested in - basically had the underpinning been designed and carried out properly by specialists in such activities? It had - they had no questions at all concerning the underpinning, but did read the rest of the report, including the comment about the wiring.

We could probably have argued the point about this, but companies who insure underpinned properties are few and far between, and because of a c*ck-up by Lloyds (who had previously insured the property) we found ourselves without any property insurance for a week after we moved in!

[Dave Liquorice]

NICEIC

As far as I know when the regs chnage it's from a given date. They do not apply retrospectivily. Otherwise evrryone would have had to rip out their plastic or wooden CUs and replace with metal ones...

The change of ownership, *may* alter this but I've never heard of that either.

insurance

If they ask to see the report *before* offering cover and make those stipulations in any offer they make.

Agreed,

Not relevant if the surveyors report is not required in the policy T&Cs. The insurance company *may* require relevant, in date, safety certificates for gas and electricity as part of the Policy T&C's.

The mortage company might stipulate in the T&Cs for the loan that certain works are carried out and may also specfify a period after which those works must have been completed.

Most "surveys" are barely worth the paper they are written on when first produced. After that they are next to useless as they only state the (vague) condition of the property at the time the survey was carried out.

[tabbypurr]

no requirement, no

unsealed boilers do have some risk, they do kill people. But not many, most owners are content to leave them in place until they die eventually. The surveyor probably has no idea what condition it's in, and it's sensible to get it safety tested before use. Landlord's test is about £50. Most people don't bother though. A CO alarm is also a good idea for old unsealed boilers.

a circular argument, effectively saying you need to update if if you need it to be upto date

correct, normally. If it turned out to have been built 8 months ago that changes.

correct

It's arse covering

NT

[tabbypurr]

all the latter - one can't rule out the possibility that there is an unexpected serious problem that has not been identified by anyone.

That's close to the truth, yet in most respects such buildings are fine. Not so much re insulation.

NT

[Reentrant]

Our recent Homebuyer Valuation didn't even mention electrics, even though it had an ancient fuse-wire consumer unit.

But I'm glad we had it checked anyway; some sockets weren't earthed, some were reverse polarity, there was no isolator for the hob, and worst of all an electric shower was wired to the incoming side of the fuse box.