House purchase - building survey - what to look out for?

Hello

We're buying a detached house, built in the 1960-69 period. It's standard construction as far as I can see (bricks, don't know about cavity wall, tiled roof)and is on an established housing estate. There's been an extension built at some stage, ading an upstairs bedroom and a downstairs dining room. The extension seems well-done to me, and there are no obvious signs of cracks in the brickwork etc. but note that I know almost nothing about building houses or extensions.

I suspect that a standard "homebuyer's survey" would have sufficed but I decided to be extra sure, hence going the extra 250 quid for the building survey. Apart from asking the surveyor to pay particular attention to the electrical wiring and the flat roof that makes up the attached garage and utility room area, what other things might you suggest that I ask the surveyor to highlight? I have only ever had a homebuyer's survey done before, so I don't know how much extra detail I should expect for my outlay or what I should be entitled to ask for specifically.

TIA for opinions based on your experiences

DDS

Reply to
Duncan Di Saudelli
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A homebuyer survey is basically a quick look for obvious problems and a valuation. It is done for the benefit of the lender but you pay for it. If you really want to have the job done properly with some comeback you need a full structural survey. Flat roofs are almost always bad news.

Peter Crosland

Reply to
Peter Crosland

IMHE not worth bothering with the extra - they don't move anything to get a proper look and will almost always "recommend" you get a sparks in to check the wiring, a roofer to check the roof etc if there's any wiff of a problem.

What they do say is usually obvious even to the average person, they ask more questions than they answer, use lots of weaselly words that leave you unable to sue them when they say things that turn out to be wrong.

Seriously I'd just pay the smallest survey fee you can i.e. to get the mortgage - anything extra is just lining some "professional"'s pocket.

Ask lots of questions on here if you are worried about anything you've seen in the house - you'll learn what you need to do.

JimK

Reply to
JimK

Yes; like I say, that's what I am doing. I'm not requesting a mere homebuyer's survey, I'm paying for a building survey (AKA structural survey).

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What I want to know from people who have done the building survey is how detailed they are compared with a homebuyer's survey and is it normal practice for the buyer to request particular attention to be paid to aspects of particular interest e.g. wiring, flat roofs etc.

Reply to
Duncan Di Saudelli

Well there will not be a proper inspection of the electrics included in the report.

You could pay for a an electrician to do a PIR but even that is not perfect.

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

One thing I do know is surveyors don't like being told what to look out for. I would imagine that a large proportion of the surveyors fees is for insurance or indemity fees etc. A surveyor can only see what you can see. However he will be better at interpreting cracks and other apparent defects. I think a lot of people use the surveyor as a negotiating tool as he's bound to find something which you can use to get at least his fee off the asking price.

I've bought several properties but have never used a surveyor. I don't need to pay £500 to be told it's a pile of junk, or that the gutter leaks, when I can see that for myself.

mark

Reply to
mark

The fact that they wear suits and don't carry ladders tells you a lot

Reply to
Stuart Noble

That is usually described simply as a a valuation survey. Many surveyors also offer a "Homebuyers report", which goes into more detail (i.e. a couple of lines of text in response to each main subject category).

The full structural is usually the "third" option, and will not be fixed price, but based on negotiation about what bits you want inspected.

(people can get carried away with these things - flat roofs are one example, I know someone who spent more time and money faffing about surveying a flat roof than it would have cost to simply replace it!)

Reply to
John Rumm

This was much the conclusion I came to. I went for the middle tier homebuyers report on the first house I bought, and in reality it told me nothing of value that would not also have been noted on a basic survey.

The next time I moved, I just went for the basic valuation survey and briefed the surveyor with a list of things that I was *not* interested to know about! (so save wasting time on lots of weasel words about plumbing and wiring, or damp meter readings).

Indeed.

Reply to
John Rumm

The more you pay, the more recommendations you get to get people in to look at various different bits. More intereast in arse covering than being useful. If you're getting a mortgage you have to have one though.

NT

Reply to
NT

If it hasn't been rewired since the sixties it will probably be 'safe enough' but inadequate for modern purposes.

If the flat roof doesn't leak now, it will leak in the future. It will also probably be poorly insulated.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

I assume you can't check things yourself?

Wiring...

- DNO cable - 1 cable or 2 cables (loop-in) to cutout?

- CU age - split load with RCD or older?

- Open CU - power off, PVC with CPC on all circuits or some TRS?

- Open hall light-sw - power off, PVC with CPC present?

- Open bedroom light-sw - power off, PVC with CPC present?

- Open socket - power off, PVC with CPC present?

1960 detached are unlikely to have a loop-in supply, but if they do the usual arrangement is 60A+80A for the two houses and often only one can have en electric shower. Replacing a loop-in (shared) supply can be expensive because the deeds may require you to provide a new supply to the other house (so you are paying for two 100A supplies). Neighbours have been known to deliberately overload their cable to get the downstream house to pay for theirs to be upgraded.

Just mentioned because it is increasingly becoming an issue, I think the practice stopped in 1958 but it may have lasted a lot longer because I know of a 1970s detached house with loop-in supply off the neighbour by a small private builder.

Plumbing...

- Central heating pipes run direct in concrete?

- If so that can cause problems re corrosion

Gas...

- Boiler pipe suitably sized for length if run thro the house

- Boiler age, condition etc

Downstairs floors...

- Wooden floor, any odd smells, soft skirting?

- Any underfloor vents obscurred by soil, earth etc?

Insurance...

- Have they made any claim for subsidence, underpinning?

Drains...

- Extension did not concrete over a manhole cover?

- Manhole cover still exists in the driveway etc?

- Built over public sewer or railway drain?

- Faeces smell around the soil pipe where it enters the ground?

Guttering...

- Felt rotten showing daylight between guttering & boards?

- Leaking guttering, wet/moss streaks down wall?

Windows...

- If DG any steamed up, distorted frames re missing steels?

Chimney...

- Vacuous pointing & cracked pots, missing rain covers?

Solid walls...

- Such as over porch, any cracked render or damp inside?

Basically indemnity cover can be a good thing :-) The bulk of a house purchase is the land, however repairs can soon add up!

Reply to
js.b1

I've not seen one in action, so I don't know what they wear, but they do carry ladders. There seems to be a standard "surveyor's ladder" that is just long enough to imply thoroughness but not long enough to access anything important.

Pete

Reply to
Pete Verdon

What do you mean when you say "a loop-in supply?"

Do you mean an incoming supply that feeds one house and then feeds back out to the next house?

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

40 year old electrics has a fairly high chance of having been messed with significantly over the years, and may need some bits sorting out, but should be mostly sound, as long as its all pvc not rubber. If rubber, probably need to replace the lot sooner rather than later.

Budget for a bundle of double sockets to replace any singles, and you'll likely want to add more. May need to replace the odd worn out switch or socket too.

Don't be put off by prehistoric fuseboxes, those are common on otherwise decent installations.

Equipotential bonding in the bathroom is a reassuring indicator, but is fairly unlikely to be present.

wet patches anywhere?

old flueless heaters? not good, but thankfully not common either. Also beware of clueless installs & lack of basic ventilation.

or areas of boards replaced where they rotted due to damp trouble. Such damp may be unresolved

structural cracks or filled cracks - dont worry about purely decorative cracks though.

in fairness feltless roofs are normally fine, I wouldnt worry unduly about felt. Check for missing or broken tiles though, and cracked joins where rain can run in - neither is hard to fix though

Flat roofs will be trouble now or later, and may well be rotting.

or cracking wall above dg windows can indicate loss of necessary support

be very ware of doors not closing due to frame movement, can indicate a major structural problem. Ditto cracks radiating from window corners and leaning walls

not that easy to tell solid from cavity by the brickwork pattern, often one imitates the other. A non-cavity wall will cost you significantly in heating though, as insulation is uneconomic for solid walls.

very much so if the owner doesnt really know what they do and dont need.

NT

Reply to
NT

40 year old electrics has a fairly high chance of having been messed with significantly over the years, and may need some bits sorting out, but should be mostly sound, as long as its all pvc not rubber. If rubber, probably need to replace the lot sooner rather than later.

Budget for a bundle of double sockets to replace any singles, and you'll likely want to add more. May need to replace the odd worn out switch or socket too.

Don't be put off by prehistoric fuseboxes, those are common on otherwise decent installations.

Equipotential bonding in the bathroom is a reassuring indicator, but is fairly unlikely to be present.

There is no equipontential bonding in the bathrooms on houses that I rewire.

17th edition etc

Adam

Reply to
ARWadsworth

after all this rain it should be pretty obvious if there are any leaks in the roof or drainage.

[g]
Reply to
george [dicegeorge]

I got "proper" surveys done for the first house I bought as I hadn't a clue about building and also for the second - mainly because it seemed the "done" thing. However both of them were entirely useless, as said they didn't check anything obscure (electrics, plumbing etc.). Neither did they move any furniture or lift any carpets to check for damp / rot / woodworm or anything else. They do seem to be a complete waste of time and money and only made superficial recommendations couched in terms like "could" "might" "may" etc. They didn't even test that the central heating worked!

The report was mainly just a run-through of the things anyone could see from a cursory glance: room sizes, state of D.G. comments about the decorative state of the places and whether there was gas and/or electric points in the rooms.

So my view now is that unless the house has recently been redecorated before being put on the market (a sign of trying to hide something?) then I can see just as many cracks, damp spots or loose roof tiles as a surveyor. The only possible advantage a survey could have is to try to get something knocked off the purchase price, but a little hard-nosed negotiation would get that anyway.

Reply to
pete

Or have someone to sue when it falls down.

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

Yes. They were common in the 1950s, but I've seen them as late as

1970s on "builder built one" houses where they ran off a neighbour's cutout. Basically the combined "two" are limited to 60+80A re 135A cable limit.

As you know DNO can't joint supply under driveway and can't do loop-in supplies anymore under ESQW so it can get "buck passing" by the DNO if things go wrong because they know the bill is quite substantial if things go wrong.

Reply to
js.b1

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