hollow wall anchor setting tool

[Fred]

Hi,

In the past, I have always tightened hollow wall anchors like these:

a screwdriver, without troubles.

Today when I did this, I had one anchor spin in the wall and erode away the plaster, presumably weakening the fixing. It didn't help that I then over tightened it, pulling even further into the wall!

I have seen fixing tools like this:

always thought (wrongly) that when you pull the handle, it must turn the bolt. I have done some googling and it would appear that actually they just pull the bolt without rotating it.

Are these a case of you get what you pay for? Should I buy a dearer brand (if so, which?) or are these cheapies at Toolstation and Amazon as good as any other?

I just wondered what you had used these anchors to hold? I found examples on the web of people holding radiators with them and wash basins. I would have thought these were best into noggins. Surely something as heavy as a full radiator would be pulled off?

TIA Fred

[Ghostrecon]

using a screwdriver, without troubles.

the setting tool makes so much difference, I have been using one from screwfix for years

a lot cheaper when I bought it about a £5 IIRC - I sometimes find that brnging it into a warm house from a cold shed encouraging comndensation on the friction bearing surfaces which makes it slip a little, you also have to be aware that the puller is attached to the shaft by a screw which sometines works looes and can strip its thread if not tightened up - often hang heaey item using decent sized wall anchors like these - only smallish radators though -

[Roger Mills]

using a screwdriver, without troubles.

> and always thought (wrongly) that when you pull the handle, it must

I bought a setting tool from Screwfix - which looks very similar to the Toolstation one, and at a similar price - and it works fine.

It definitely *doesn't* rotate the screw - it pushes the body of the fixing against the plasterboard and pulls the head of the screw away from the wall - thus compressing the gubbins at the back to be a tight fit on the plasterboard. You then have to unscrew the screw, pass it through whatever you are fixing to the wall, and re-screw it into what is now a very secure captive nut.

Whilst it's always good to screw into a frame member or noggin when possible, these fittings will take a lot of weight - and are as strong as the plasterboard. Plasterboard is actually quite strong as long as it is adequately supported.

I have used these fixings for all sorts of things - including a ceramic washbasin, albeit on a pedestal so that the fixing wasn't taking the whole, weight. [I had to buy some longer screws to go through the tiles].

I don't think I've actually used them for a radiator - but I would have no particular worries about doing so - as long as the plasterboard wall was sound.

The only limitation I've found is when you need two screws very close together. They must be a certain minimum distance apart - otherwise the spready bits at the back interfere with each other. You can put them

*fairly* close if you pay careful attention to the orientation so that 'petals' of one fit in the gaps between those of the other.

[John Rumm]

using a screwdriver, without troubles.

That works... but I prefer using the setting tool.

> and always thought (wrongly) that when you pull the handle, it must

No it just pulls the bolt head using the flange on sleeve to restrain it. Thereby folding the anchor into its "fixed" position. You can then take the bolt out and the anchor stays firmly put.

I have a basic cheap one, seems to work ok.

A radiator is fine since most of the load is in shear. A basin would be a much more difficult load to support on plasterboard since it will have significant "pull" on the fixing. Might be ok if its the type with a supporting bracket.

Personally I have done rads, and large flat screen TVs (although that was in a commercial site onto plasterboard where shop fitters typically use two layers, which makes them harder to set. Also curtain poles etc.

[Dave Liquorice]

I used to do that but bought the setting tool and selection of anchors that Aldl had the other month. Wouldn't go back to the screwdriver method now, with the tool you know it has been set correctly not partially set or over done.

I'm going to play with it and plasterboard with foam insulation bonded to the back as a lot of walls here are like that now. The foam seems fairly friable so I don't think it will be a problem but I'll set one or two into an off cut then dig away the foam and see what has happened.

As for load bearing, they spread it over quite and area behind the board and most loads are sheer. Must admit I'd be wary about fixing a wash basin with them but that's more down to the plasterboard deforming over time rather than a failure of the fixing.

I wonder what the plumber is going to use to fix the radiators to the plasterboard/foam walls?

[Scott M]

*Exactly* what I was going to say!

[Scott M]

You can get them with longer shanks. I had some for years with ~1" sections before realising exactly what they were intended for!

Also, as an aside, on Friday I used four to hold a 10kg 94" projector screen to a plasterboard ceiling.... . . . . .

Modern flat with that metal strip stuff instead of wooden joists so I located the steel and drilled through both it and the p'board. Pushed the fixings through both, tightened and job was a good'un.

[Mike Clarke]

BTDTWTTS, found them to expand and grip without problem.

[The Medway Handyman]

> using a screwdriver, without troubles.

>>> and always thought (wrongly) that when you pull the handle, it must

I'd agree - makes the job painless. Only problem I've had is when using the smaller anchors - the gap in the jaw is too wide - a washer on the bolt sorts it.

[Fred]

Thanks. I wasn't sure whether these were like crimp tools, where you needed a decent one to work, but judging from all the replies, the cheap ones are just as good, so I'll go ahead and order one of those.

[Fred]

How does the tool "know" the bolt has been pulled as far as it can? After all, you can get these in different lengths, so surely it would have to pull longer bolts further to fully set them?

I can see that if it was under done, the "petals" would not have opened fully, so would distribute the weight over a smaller area. What is the problem of over doing it? Is it that it starts to draw the fixing into the plasterboard, enlarging the hole?

To use the tool, do you pull the "trigger" once or do you have to pump it a couple of times?

I am surprised you can fit radiators with them, I hadn't realised plasterboard was so strong. I had visions of the fitting being pulled through the plasterboard and the plasterboard, rather than the fixing, breaking.

[Dave Liquorice]

It's feel, as you pull the trigger there is some "give" as the petals start to deform, easy pulling for a bit, then it becomes very solid when the pyramid has been fully formed. I guess if one was well into brute force and ignorance one could mangle the fitting but it would take serious effort.

And possibly continue to deform to the correct place under load loosening the fitting.

That isn't going to happen with a setting tool. A screwdriver doesn't give the same level of feedback and there is the temptation to tighten things up too much. Particulalry if things have not gone "solid" , these things go firm but not solid under the influence of a screwdriver.

Depends on the fixing some are longer than others... The small ones take less than a single squeeze.

[Scott M]

It doesn't, you have to!

Like tightening a stiff nut, you feel a moderate increate in resistance and have to know to stop otherwise you'll just crush the board.

Like mastic guns you "pump" them.

[John Rumm]

You feel the resistance step up dramatically...

Yes.

Probably - although that would be hard to do with a setting tool.

Several times - more than two usually - its a bit like one of those single handed clamps if you ever used one. The action is quite "geared down".

Plaster board is actually very strong with loads in shear. Its far less good with loads under tension. Needless to say, rads are close to the wall, and present most of their load in shear.

(usually when fixing to a stud wall, you can arrange for at least one rad bracket to align with a stud. Then you only need a PB fixing on one side).

[Fred]

Thanks for all the replies. A no-name tool arrived in the post from Tool station today, ready for next time I have to use these fixings. Now that I have got one, you can guarantee I won't need to use it for a while!

Sorry if I did not make myself clear; my remarks about under and over tightening were about using screwdrivers, not the setting tool.

It's an interesting point you've made about fixing one radiator bracket to a stud and the other to an anchor. Fortunately, the only time I ever fitted a radiator to a stud wall, I built the wall first and positioned extra studs where I knew the radiator would be, but now I know for next time.

Thanks again everyone.