Hive central heating controller - one channel or two

We're thinking of getting a Hive remote-controlled central heating controller/thermostat so we can set our heating to come on several hours before we get home from holiday etc.
I'm trying to work out whether we need a single- or dual-channel controller. Hive's customer support was dire: they wouldn't offer any advice and just said "speak to a qualified central heating installer". Imagine not being able to offer any pre-sales advice!
We have a combi boiler which currently has a dual-timer: one for the central heating and one for the hot water. The hot water is pre-heated in a reservoir in the boiler, hence the reason for being able to time when that pre-heat comes on and off, so it's not wasting fuel keeping the reservoir hot overnight.
Hive say "single-channel for combi; dual channel for conventional boiler with hot water cylinder". Our system sounds as if it has some features of both: it's mostly heat-on-demand but with timed pre-heat of a small reservoir in the boiler.
So, single or dual?
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If you have a combi, why would you want remote control of on/off for the water? The tap does that.
Also, are you sure your system doesn't already allow you to set it while away on holiday? So it comes on the day or whatever you return? Even if a day or two out, you're not going to use the gas cost of one of these.
I'm not surprised they say to ask a specialist. My guess is it will only work with a *very* basic system. One with no microprocessor control.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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wrote:

Yes but we need to be able to control the hours that the boiler pre-heats the water, so it doesn't heat it overnight. That's independent of the on-demand heating of water. I imagine that when you turn on the tap, the water that comes out of the tap (excluding what's in the pipe) initially comes from the pre-heat reservoir, to give the boiler time to start heating cold water - otherwise it would take a long time to run warm.

As far as I know, the controller just has time-on, time-off settings - I'm not aware that you can say "from dates d1 to d2 come on between these hours, but otherwise come on between these hours".
Anyway, what we want is "between these dates, heat the house to a frost-free temperature; otherwise heat to a normal temperature". Since the boiler is outside, any frost stat in the boiler will just be to keep the boiler itself from freezing, not to prevent the house (eg water pipes) from freezing.
My understanding of the Hive (as regards central heating) is that it functions as a combination of timer controller and thermostat, so as to turn on the boiler when some condition is met. And that condition is a function both of room temperature and time of day, so you can tell it to set the thermostat to frost setting overnight, maybe high temperature in the morning and evening, and a medium temp during the day so the boiler doesn't have to work as hard to re-heat the house ready for when we come home.
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Sounds like you need to update to modern controls. Far better way to spend your money than on Hive.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 25/11/2016 10:33, NY wrote:

I got the Honeywell evohome, simple to install and does everything I could ever need or foresee wanting.
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Single, and turn off the hot water pre-heat whilst you are away, or turn off the hot water heating entirely is that's possible.
Only reason for dual would be if you have multiple heating zones, or to heat a hot water storage cyclider.
Actually, what you want is to leave the heating on 24x7 whilst you are away, setback to frost protection. It depends where the stat is, but 10C is probably the lowest you can go and some insurance companies require 15C. If you have frost stats physically located in all the vulnerable places, you can risk lower. I would assume Hive can do this, but I'm not familar with its capability.
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On 25/11/2016 10:33, NY wrote:

I kicked any thought of Hive into touch when I saw that 'they' would have full details of my usage, i.e. every time it went on/off, etc. Quite apart from the subscription charge, at that (any) price I can live without it.
Peter
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OMG, does it come with a sub
I thought it was free to use once you had paid the inflated price to buy it
tim
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It *is* free. Peter Andrews may have been thinking of the "rental" version available as an alternative to outright purchase for British Gas customers. I assume that in the subscription model, you are paying to rent the Hive controller - three boxes: "hub" which is wired to router and talks wirelessly (maybe by private wireless network) to "receiver" which is the on-off switches for the CH and hot water systems and the "thermostat" which includes user controls such as boost, temp up/down in addition to on-line controls.
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seems a pretty weak reason for spending 150 quid on a "toy"
tim
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wrote:

and I can do this with my Honeywell Programmable Thermostat. I simply set it before I leave home.
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from KT24 in Surrey, England

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wrote:

Both couples I know who have Hives, also own iPhones and update the anually to the latest model. That should tell you all you need to know ;-)
--

Graham.

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On 25/11/16 13:48, Graham. wrote:

It does.
"Solutions to problems I never knew I didn't have"
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On 25/11/2016 12:40, tim... wrote:

I've a Heatmiser version of the same - has worked pretty well for the past 5 years. I'm not sure if the new ones are the same - but mine is just a plug-in replacement for a standard thermostat. I didn't want one with power supply and receiver box.
An extra with mine is the need for a managed DNS address. It costs me about £25pa with Dyn - but I use it for other things. I think some manufacturers include it.
I find it quite useful as my hours are irregular.
And I'm sure remote controls, mobile phones and horseless carriages were once considered 'toys' too. Oh the young things today, whatever next :-)
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RJH wrote:

Me too, which model do you have?
You're aware that all their older models with direct access from the internet turned out to be less secure than a wet paper bag?
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On 26/11/2016 12:09, Andy Burns wrote:

PRT-TS

Yep. I gather it was via the web browser interface (not the phone app), but forget the details.
I got a letter from them saying I could swap it out or get a credit. When I tried to do that (either, I wasn't bothered) I got mired in various denials and definitions of the words swap and credit. I think perhaps they'd had a change of MD and decided to front it out. 'Ruth', the admin dealing with it, closed all correspondence and refused to provide details of the MD or further redress.
The wider saga here:
http://cybergibbons.com/security-2/heatmiser-wifi-thermostat-vulnerabilities/
I could have mentioned that ;-)
--
Cheers, Rob

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So were mine. So I installed an additional programmer in the kitchen in a convenient place. So just altered the on time if needed before leaving for work.

Thing is I can't think of when I'd ever use it. Since I'd made altering the on time easy - long before such things arrived.
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*How does Moses make his tea? Hebrews it.*

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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On 26/11/2016 12:54, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Mine are more unpredictable than that. Last night I went for an unscheduled drink for example - got back at 8.00, set the heating just before I left the pub.

Of course, I accept it's not for everyone, and I'd concede an element of frivolousness. Even I can wait 20 minutes while the house warms. For me it's probably more expensive in gas, given my tendency now to preheat the house.
It's there in the shops, I can afford it, it is of some use and I get some enjoyment out of using it, so I've got it. Should I? Dunno.
--
Cheers, Rob

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Snag is this place takes quite a time to come up to temperature. With no-one else in the house I have it switched off during the day. So it needs a couple of hours to come up to what I want on a cold evening.

That is perfectly acceptable. It's those who say 'this is what you need' without knowing anything about you that annoy. Like those bloody ads on the telly. And some on here, of course.
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Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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DynDNS host names are still free, if you sign up for an account with https://www.dlinkddns.com/signin/ and submit the MAC and S/N of any old D-Link router.
You can then use your credentials to http://dyn.com/ and even add a .dyndns host to your account.
It's amazing the angles that some eBayers photograph their routers.
Not suggesting anything, just saying.
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Graham.

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