Gas pipe in screed.

Pretty well, yes. But the subs went to a recognised charity. Our management were actually very pro union, and simply wouldn't have put the few in this position of demanding they work when others were on strike. But of course it would have been pretty pointless anyway.

What it means is very highly paid accountants simply stay one step ahead of the rather less competent ones in the IR. Not something the average bloke on PAYE can do.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)
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For every tax-avoiding 'tory' (and lots of guardian readers avoid tax too - big time), there is a benefit-sponging Corbyn supporter.

Reply to
Andrew

But no signed certificate or Gas Safe ID card with your photo on it unfortunately.

They have all the cookers on dispay in their sheds, or I assume they still do. While their delivery and installation option includes taking away your old cooker. For people who don't fancy hiring a van and taking a trip to the local recycling centre - and that's assuming they're comfortable handling things like cookers and have the necessary spanners to connect the hose - I assume that's a plus.

But you're right apart from all those people, why would anyone buy a cooker from them ?

Anyway that's an afternoon of my life I'm never going to get back

michael adams

...

Reply to
michael adams

Very easy to know is someone is claiming benefits they ain't entitled to. Companies moving funds around the world to avoid paying UK taxes, a different matter. But then even you know that.

I assume you are extremely wealthy if you think such things are good for the country?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

The requirements for pipe in screed from BS6891, read as follows:

"8.8 Pipes buried in concrete ground floors

8.8.1 Installation pipework shall not be buried in concrete slabs. 8.8.2 Rigid stainless steel pipework shall not be buried in concrete screeds.

Pipe buried in concrete screed shall be installed in accordance with Figure 5.

Where a pipe is buried in a concrete screed there shall be a minimum of

25 mm of cover above the pipe. 8.8.3 Pipes buried in concrete ground floors shall be protected against failure caused by movement. Joints shall be kept to a minimum. Compression fittings shall not be buried in concrete screeds or concrete slab.

COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 8.8.3 Suitable methods of protection are as follows. a) Pipe laid on top of base concrete and subsequently covered by a screed (see also 9.2.1). b) Steel or copper pipe installed into preformed ducts with protective covers. c) Steel or copper pipe fitted with additional soft, non-permeable covering material. The coverings should be soft and thick enough to provide movement yet resilient enough to support the concrete cover while it is setting.

The covering should be at least 5 mm thick and resistant to concrete ingress which would negate its ability to allow movement.

Reference should also be made to 9.2.1 for the application of adequate corrosion protection.

8.8.4 Pipes passing vertically through solid floors shall take the shortest practicable route and shall be sleeved (see 8.10). 8.8.5 Compression fittings shall not be buried in the structure or below ground."

And figure 5 looks like:

formatting link

Section 9.2.1 has the following:

"9.2 Buried pipework

9.2.1 Internal environment 9.2.1.1 Pipework that is buried in a solid floor or wall shall be factory sheathed, or protected on site by wrapping or with suitable bituminous paint protection. The entire section of pipe and fittings to be buried shall be protected. Any sheathing or wrapping shall be examined for cuts or other defects and made good prior to use. Joints and fittings shall be cleaned, and wrapped or painted with bituminous paint after the satisfactory completion of a gas tightness test.

Galvanized or painted pipes shall not be buried without additional protection as specified in the previous paragraph.

COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 9.2.1.1 Protective measures are applied as a precaution against electrolytic and/or chemical corrosion. The use of factory bonded wrapping or sheathing is recommended.

9.2.1.2 Where installation pipes are to be buried in magnesium-oxy-chloride cement or magnesite flooring, they shall be of copper with a factory bonded sheath and jointed with copper capillary fittings. Bends and joints shall be further protected by wrapping with a suitable plastic tape. All surfaces shall be clean and dry before the additional protection is applied with a minimum 50 % overlap to provide at least a layer of double thickness."
Reply to
John Rumm

I have no problem with any of that.

However I take objection to glib comments of the form "All the suggestions are wrong including the 'drop test' comment"...

Seriously? All of them - every single one is wrong? Even those which are in full compliance with relevant gas fitting standards such as BS6891?

The comment about the soundness testing is also misleading since its obviously a requirement that it be done at some point, but steph's comment offers no guidance as to what exactly he is objecting to.

(a more nuanced answer might include detail that a drop test is required, but it should be done on the completed pipework before any additional protective wrapping or painting of the buried sections of the installation are applied).

Reply to
John Rumm

There are many applicable BS docs, although not one single BS document with the scope of BS7671. Industry standard manuals probably give a better overview though. See "Tolley?s Domestic Gas Installation Practice (Gas Service Technology Volume 2)" as a good example.

Some of those BS standards more relevant for domestic stuff would include:

BS6891 "Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼) in domestic premises (2nd family gas) ? Specification"

BS5440 "Installation and maintenance of flues and ventilation for gas appliances of rated input not exceeding 70 kW net (1st, 2nd and 3rd family gases)"

BS5871 "Specification for the installation and maintenance of gas fires, convector heaters, fire/back boilers and decorative fuel effect gas appliances"

BS6172 "Code of practice for Installation of domestic gas cooking appliances (2nd family gases)"

BS6798 "Specification for installation of gas-fired boilers of rated input not exceeding 70 kW net"

BS7838 "Corrugated stainless steel semi-rigid pipe and associated fittings for low-pressure gas pipework of up to DN 50"

Then there are also *tons* of standard applying to individual components, and materials. e.g. BS EN 751 "Sealing materials for metallic threaded joints in contact with 1st, 2nd and 3rd family gases and hot water"

(all (except Tolley's) available with a BSI subscription or from a public library service that maintains a subscription)

Reply to
John Rumm

There is plenty the average bloke on PAYE can do to pay less tax... the government themselves even provide schemes for them to do so when it suits them.

(E.g. open an ISA, pay no tax on the interest / share dividends / capital growth that accumulates in it).

There does seem to be a problem of governments wanting to have their cake and eat it though, when they cook up some complicated scheme to promote investment in some industry or sector, and then get all upset when people use it.

Reply to
John Rumm

Yes. But the company running that ISA etc has employees who pay tax. As will the company itself. They are an above board investment approved of by the tax authorities. Not some scam set up to get out of paying a fair share. Unless you think some multi-national with sales of millions in the UK really only does make a couple of thousand profit here.

There is the spirit and letter of the law, I'd say.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

The advice offered by the Tracpipe suppliers is covered by your first post but includes a requirement to have direction changes at 90deg. presumably taking a lead from the electrical engineers:-)

There will be 60mm of screed on top of the pipe if I go down this route. I guess pipe flow losses will be high in corrugated pipe but two gas rings is not much of a load.

Reply to
Tim Lamb

Induction is way better for control than Halogen. The hobs may look the same in appearance but halogen is still a Hot source with delayed actions compared to a gas flame, Induction is just about the same/ close depending on how sophisticated your induction hob is.

The surface problem is that the heat resistant Ceramic Glass which goes under a coupe of trade names such as Ceran can be affected by hot sugar solutions like jam , wipe it off before it sets and usually no problem but once it has gone cold it bonds really well. Scraping with a very sharp blade has to be resorted to but there is often a small pit or scar after. Fortunately we have managed to avoid such damage even though we have had one for a few years BHC*.

  • Before Huge Converted.

I recall him interjecting with a disparaging comment years ago when somebody had a cooking problem and mentioned they were using an Induction Hob. Something like , your problem is the induction Hob or similar.

G.Harman

Reply to
damduck-egg

But can you use your existing pots and pans?

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

Well that is a side issue to the controllability but it would depend on how they were made as I'm sure you really know.

In our case mostly yes, the pressure cooker and the preserving pan were the only ones that were not compatible, others would have to check and decided if purchasing the compatible equipment was worth it as part of the overall cost and if they feel any change will be worthwhile for their particular set of circumstances. Often if a whole kitchen is renovated when an induction may be fitted the users decide thier old pans look a bit tired and get a new set anyway.

Going from gas to induction is probably not going to be that much of improvement in controllability so it may not be worth doing unless like my BIL he was quite happy to DIY a kitchen and wire a cooker supply but not to move the gas pipe. For those who do not have a gas option and are used to electric direct heating type cooking it is a step change and I would recommend just getting new pans. when we were looking about 8 to 10 years ago some suppliers would include a basic set heavily discounted or even free but I haven't needed to look to see if it is still the case. What was also around at the time was a converter disk that was just a steel disk that got heated by the induction hob and then became hot enough to put a non compatible pan on. It basically turned that induction segment into a conventional one with the consequence you no longer have the fine control, I thought that might be the answer for the jam pan but it was useless as the induction Hob sensed an overheat and shut down . The old preserving pan is now a bucket for car washing.

G.Harman

Reply to
damduck-egg

This turns out not to be the case.

Induction is way more controllable than gas, can put much more heat into the pans, and can heat a pan of water as fast as an electric cooker. It also wastes less heat into your kitchen, and doesn't produce moisture as the oxidation products.

We had one for about 6 months, and it was wonderful. Then I was made redundant, and the new kitchen where we moved to hasn't made it to the top of the job list yet, so we're back to gas. And this bottled gas hob is even worse than our old mains one :(

Andy

Reply to
Vir Campestris

Have you seen how much heat a gas wok burner can put into a wok?

Having said that I bought an induction hob.

Reply to
dennis

Only for quite small values of "way more controllable". I'd say they're quite similar.

This is true.

And this isn't. Induction is much faster than resistive.

Both true.

I really must save a copy of the commentary I made on switching from gas to a halogen hob to induction as a result of moving house and then replacing the kitchen. The conclusion was that induction is very similar to gas as a cooking tool, but much, much, *much* easier to clean.

Reply to
Huge

Apart from the not inconsiderable cost of replacing all but our cast iron stuff, the issue which worries me most about switching from gas is the ever growing risk of damage from dropping things on the induction hob as we get older. Gas hobs seem better equipped to kill rather than be killed. But I've failed to find quantified "test to destruction" data.

Reply to
Robin

I was surprised how little cookware we had to replace. Just the frying pans, essentially, plus a few weird odds and sods we rarely use and can be worked around.

Sadly, the glass surface of our Neff is scratched already, after 8 months of use. So it goes.

Reply to
Huge

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