Rather than tracpipe, which I think needs flaring tools etc, you can buy
yellow plastic coated copper tube, such as
you might be able to find it in smaller quantities?
otherwise wrap pipe in 2" denso tape? that's what dad (ex EMGAS) used to
The requirements for pipe in screed from BS6891, read as follows:
"8.8 Pipes buried in concrete ground floors
8.8.1 Installation pipework shall not be buried in concrete slabs.
8.8.2 Rigid stainless steel pipework shall not be buried in concrete
Pipe buried in concrete screed shall be installed in accordance with
Where a pipe is buried in a concrete screed there shall be a minimum of
25 mm of cover above the pipe.
8.8.3 Pipes buried in concrete ground floors shall be protected against
failure caused by movement. Joints shall be kept to a minimum.
Compression fittings shall not be buried in concrete screeds or concrete
COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 8.8.3
Suitable methods of protection are as follows.
a) Pipe laid on top of base concrete and subsequently covered by a
screed (see also 9.2.1).
b) Steel or copper pipe installed into preformed ducts with protective
c) Steel or copper pipe fitted with additional soft, non-permeable
covering material. The coverings should
be soft and thick enough to provide movement yet resilient enough to
support the concrete cover while it is setting.
The covering should be at least 5 mm thick and resistant to concrete
ingress which would negate its ability to allow movement.
Reference should also be made to 9.2.1 for the application of adequate
8.8.4 Pipes passing vertically through solid floors shall take the
shortest practicable route and shall be
sleeved (see 8.10).
8.8.5 Compression fittings shall not be buried in the structure or below
And figure 5 looks like:
Section 9.2.1 has the following:
"9.2 Buried pipework
9.2.1 Internal environment
220.127.116.11 Pipework that is buried in a solid floor or wall shall be
factory sheathed, or protected on site by wrapping or with suitable
bituminous paint protection.
The entire section of pipe and fittings to be buried shall be protected.
Any sheathing or wrapping shall be examined for cuts or other defects
and made good prior to use. Joints and fittings shall be cleaned, and
wrapped or painted with bituminous paint after the satisfactory
completion of a gas tightness test.
Galvanized or painted pipes shall not be buried without additional
protection as specified in the previous paragraph.
COMMENTARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS ON 18.104.22.168
Protective measures are applied as a precaution against electrolytic
and/or chemical corrosion. The use of factory bonded wrapping or
sheathing is recommended.
22.214.171.124 Where installation pipes are to be buried in
magnesium-oxy-chloride cement or magnesite flooring, they shall be of
copper with a factory bonded sheath and jointed with copper capillary
Bends and joints shall be further protected by wrapping with a suitable
plastic tape. All surfaces shall be clean and dry before the additional
protection is applied with a minimum 50 % overlap to provide at least
a layer of double thickness."
Well no. No one in authority, for the present at least, can
obtain a warrant to enter somebody's home to prevent them
from their doing their own gas work without first proving
their competence. Or in the absence of any such proof to
examine their gas installations and appliances and demand
to see the relevant certificates.
Nobody is questioning your competence, Charles either then or
now. In fact without having information of any kind on which
to base a statement, and without researching figures for
household gas explosions and their causes, quite possibly 99.99%
of work done by DIY'ers always was, and still is, perfectly safe.
And then again you're a self selecting sample. Doubtless
in the past 29 years there'll have been at least one or
two if not a lot more people who did their own gas work
who blew themselves up as a consequence. But then, they're
hardly likely to be posting on here, to present the contrary
point of view.
Insurers and others on the other hand are solely concerned
with that other 0.01%, and the possible consequences should
things go wrong. And even without anything going wrong,
they're even more enthusiastic about avoiding paying out
on claims wherever possible. It might be a condition of
a household insurance policy for instance that all gas
installations and appliances on the insured premises,
installed since a certain date, have been installed and tested
and signed off by a Gas Safe Registered, or Corgi as was, fitter*.
Similarly with boiler inspections where appropriate. This would
even include fitting a bayonet hose to the back of a cooker.
Despite the fact that the insured householder might be a retired,
but unregistered gas fitter, with 40 years experience.
* I stand to be corrected but it's my understanding that a
Gas Safe Registered fitter is prohibited from signing off
any installation for which he wasn't solely responsible,
or for which another Gas Safe Registered fitter wasn't
responsible. Basically with a new pipe installation in a
floor, if this GSR fitter didn't fit it, and there's
no paperwork saying another GSR fitter fitted it, then
he can't sign off any subsequent work done on that pipe.
So while he might still do the checks, he won't sign the
work off, such as to satisfy an insurance company.
But as I say, I stand to be corrected on this point.
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From personal experience, I have a deep distrust of Gas Safe and before
it Corgi engineers. Many come across as extremely prececious, yet I
have come across numerous incidents of work done by such being way
below a standard even for an amateur. One such engineer's error
actually set alight to a house, in a second incident at another house,
a supposedly soldered pipe was just held in a solder fitting by
friction alone, leaking and almost caused a second fire had the pipe
I am an engineer too, not a gas fitter, but I am happy to dispense my
knowledge to anyone who might be able to make sensible use of it. I
also know several Gas Safe qualified engineers who would likewise be
happy to give free advise.
The gas supply to my house has a buried compression joint, where the
yellow plastic joins onto the 3/4 inch iron under the concrete apron
in front of the garage (which contains the meter).
Gas Compression joints are not completely avoidable but must be
There are many applicable BS docs, although not one single BS document
with the scope of BS7671. Industry standard manuals probably give a
better overview though. See "Tolley’s Domestic Gas Installation Practice
(Gas Service Technology Volume 2)" as a good example.
Some of those BS standards more relevant for domestic stuff would include:
BS6891 "Installation of low pressure gas pipework of up to 35 mm (R1¼)
in domestic premises (2nd family gas) — Specification"
BS5440 "Installation and maintenance of flues and ventilation for gas
appliances of rated input not exceeding 70 kW net (1st, 2nd and 3rd
BS5871 "Specification for the installation and maintenance of gas fires,
convector heaters, fire/back boilers and decorative fuel effect gas
BS6172 "Code of practice for Installation of domestic gas cooking
appliances (2nd family gases)"
BS6798 "Specification for installation of gas-fired boilers of rated
input not exceeding 70 kW net"
BS7838 "Corrugated stainless steel semi-rigid pipe and associated
fittings for low-pressure gas pipework of up to DN 50"
Then there are also *tons* of standard applying to individual
components, and materials. e.g. BS EN 751 "Sealing materials for
metallic threaded joints in contact with 1st, 2nd and 3rd family gases
and hot water"
(all (except Tolley's) available with a BSI subscription or from a
public library service that maintains a subscription)
No it doesn't. If Adam gives advice on here and someone incompetent,
say my next door neighbour, misunderstands that advice, the worst
that can happen is that they might electocute themselves along with
possibly members of their family. And sad though this might be, once
my grief had subsided, that would be it. And although technically
incorrect this might be called "Darwin in Action"
If however they had misunderstood advice being given by a gas fitter
on here then quite possibly they might not only blow their own house,
up but mine too.
Not everybody posting on here lives in a house or cottage on acres
of land in the middle of nowhere. As you of all people might have
been expected to know.
Possibly he's worried about living next door to incompetents
who might be otherwise tempted to do their own gas DIY ?
You do know the vast majority of gas explosions etc don't involve any DIY
I'd never advise anyone to DIY anything they aren't competent at. And most
who would attempt doing gas pipework themselves will already be familiar
with doing the same with water.
What I do object to is things like Gas Safe. And Corgi before it. Simply a
way of getting a monopoly for those who pay the subscriptions. And it
certainly shows when we get posts like the one from Steph on here.
*WOULD A FLY WITHOUT WINGS BE CALLED A WALK?
Dave Plowman firstname.lastname@example.org London SW
I am not sure what you are arguing for.
no regulation of those who carry out gas work for reward?
a multiplicity of "competent person schemes" as eg with electrical work?
a state monopoly?
Bear in mind that AIUI it was HSE who decided to stick with a single,
But at least the name won't have to change if they switch operator
again: HSE own the Gas Safe name and logo.
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid
Spoken like a true trade unionist. Who doubtless enjoyed
all the benefits of working in a closed shop environment for
what was it, upwards of 30 years ?
As it happens, unlike most trade union members in the
general unions at least, joining the Gas Safe Register
involves rather more than simply paying a subscription.
And even if as has been claimed some of them show a
degree of incompetence, the standard to which they have
supposedly been trained and tested, no doubt by paying
backhanders to the people conducting the tests according
to you, is sufficient to satisfy insurance companies, and
any solicitors representing the people who are about to
buy your house.
That must have made you popular.
Aunty and Her Little Villains.
The BBC and the Unions, 1969-1984
The main union at the BBC was the ABS (the Association of
Broadcasting Staff). It was recognised by the BBC across all areas
Industrial relations in the BBC had historically been much
better than in the ITV companies.
There was no BBC equivalent to the strike and lock out of
1979, which saw commercial television off the air for ten weeks.
There was no closed shop agreement, which weakened the ABS, and
it never enjoyed the same leverage with management as its counterparts
in commercial television. Twice, in 1968 and again in 1975, the ABS
had tried unsuccessfully to persuade the BBC to allow a closed shop with
it in order to resist encroachments from the ACTT
While over at ITV
For much of the 1970s Britain suffered high inflation rates (peaking at
24.2% in 1975) which meant high pay claims by workers, despite encouragement
and even legal restrictions from various governments to restrain pay and
thus supposedly break the inflationary cycle.
The ITV companies were highly profitable throughout this period, constantly
beating the BBC in the weekday ratings and consequently receiving large
amounts of advertising revenue. They had to deal with several unions at this
time including the usually moderate EETPU (Electrical, Electronic,
Telecommunications and Plumbing Union who handled electronics in the
studios), NATTKE (National Association of Theatrical, Television and
Kine Employees) and the ACTT (Association of Cinematograph Television and
Technicians) led by the militant left-winger Alan Sapper.
In 1979 (when the annual inflation rate was 13.4%) the ITV companies
made a 9% pay offer.
The unions rejected this, wanting 25% and claiming that their members'
pay over recent years had been eroded by inflation. On 23rd July the EETPU
and NATTKE unions carried out a national one-day strike which led to all
regions being blanked out except for Westward Television (whose members
voted not to strike) and Channel Television. In the other
companies EETPU members had switched off equipment that ACTT members refused
to switch back on and operate and therefore no television programmes could
be made or broadcast.
But then I suppose you were away on your holidays or off sick, while
all this was going on.
It's rather more a case that your knowledge of Gas Safe Register
fitters, who one might expect to be members of the working
class just like yourself, appears to be straight out of the
"Daily Mail", I'm afraid.
It's the best possible safeguard there is.
Contrary to what you seem to think, insurance companies
aren't mugs, and they're going to be the first people to suffer
financially should the Gas Safe Registration scheme as its now
operates prove to be grossly inefficient.
So your attempt to run down your fellow workers
was all in vain, I'm afraid,
>>> > What I do object to is things like Gas Safe. And Corgi
Sorry the penny has just dropped.
Might it simply be the case that somebody still hasn't got
over having to pay a Gas Safe Registered fitter ?70 to
attach a bayonet hose to the back of their cooker,
3 or 4 years ago ?
(Having possibly been mugged into it by choosing to have the
cooker delivered by Currys or similar ?)
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