Energy consumption reduction opinions sought.

Feb 04, 2009 161 Replies

If you've got no insulation, even 25mm of celotex will make an enormous difference. Each increase in thickness is a tiny gain compared with going from nothing to the first inch. You don't need 60mm to be worthwhile. In this scenario, I would install a thickness which is the ceiling joist height minus 2 - 3" to allow for ventilation above (capped at whetever current building regs require). Cut and fit with the bottom level with the bottom of the joists (so the gap is above the celotex, not below). Seal all the joins below with aluminium tape (including between the celotex and joists) and refit with foil backed plasterboard.

BTW, it's quite easy to tell if you have any insulation up there. Buy an infra-red digital thermometer (a great toy to have anyway). Use it to measure the ceiling temperature on a cold night. If the ceiling is significantly colder than the body of the room, then there's little or no insulation in it.

You can repeat that around all the external walls/ceiling/floors of the living accomodation in the house to see where you are losing heat, i.e. where you would benefit from more insulation.

You can also do it the other way around. On a cold day when you have the heating on, walk around the outside of the house looking for the warmer outside surfaces. This is also where you are losing heat. (Might be difficult to get a measurement from the top of a flat roof unless you can oversee it some how, or get a ladder up there.)

It seems to be a common misconception that the TRV sets the radiator temperature. It doesn't - it sets the room temperature. The radiator temperature is likely to swing all over the place in its effort to maintain the room temperature, particularly given that the hot supply to the radiator is likely to be cycling on and off from the boiler too.

Another varient particularly apt at the moment -- how quickly does the snow melt on your roof compared with other roofs around you (and even compared with different parts of the roof)?

On 05 Feb 2009 10:28:38 GMT someone who may be snipped-for-privacy@cucumber.demon.co.uk (Andrew Gabriel) wrote this:-

Indeed. The related myth is that the higher the number the more rapidly the radiator heats the room.

No it isn't. Any room that is up to temp has the rads off, any that aren't have them on. Once the house is warm all of the rads should be cooler than when it is warming up. If they aren't the rads are too small or the valves aren't working.

Well all I can say is that is not my practical experience.

As I wrote, all my upstairs radiators are set to 2, the downstairs to 5. On a cold day, all the upstairs ones are just warm, the downstairs one are untouchable. Maybe my TRVs are just more efficient than most ! ;-)

Yes OK, I get the principle now, but still it's more likely a high set TRV radiator will be hot. Yes?

Yes OK. As I just acknowledged to dennis@home, I can see where you're coming from now.

Which is fine as a very rough rule of thumb. But there will be a substantial difference between a house with a ridge flue, or just a through-the-roof flue as against one with a through the wall flue.

Yes, sorry, I was thinking of green ones and assuming that they're the same.

On Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:12:29 +0000 someone who may be Andy Cap wrote this:-

For a given room at a given starting temperature the higher the valve is turned the more likely it is that the room will not be above the set temperature and thus the radiator will warm up.

For the same given conditions the higher the valve is turned the longer the radiator will take to warm the room up to the set temperature, at which point the valve will close down and the radiator will then cool down.

You would not.

24W is not much for a metal object to dissipate into reasonable air.

It is more likely using an eighth that much

However that is true. An unloaded bell transformer will have a huge power factor.

Its essentially an inductor straight across the mains..

All of it.

Better use an Aga then. It heats teh room uniformly all the time, so there is no need to open the window when the kitchen suddenly gets uber hot because you have spent an extra 10Kwh cooking dinner.

Sure. why bother with a 100% efficient kettle when you can use a 30% efficient microwave to do the same job.

Ah - I was going to point out that you cannot make a cup of coffee from granules. (You can make a brown liquid with something that vaguely reminds you of coffee. I don't - rather do without.)

If you must ;-)

Andrew Gabriel posted

I must admit I thought that. I can't understand how it can measure the room temperature at all accurately when it is screwed tightly onto a hot radiator.

Clot posted

How? I can see how it would conserve the heat in a room, but not necessarily through the whole house.

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