Electric heating for shop - storage heaters or what ?

HI Folks

Regular readers may remember that we're running a small art / craft retail outlet (on a shoestring).

Thanks for the suggestions about reducing the cost of lighting - we've made some savings by swapping the mains GU10 spots for 20w units - and all still looking good.

Thinking ahead to winter, and some means of heating the shop.

It's wired/metered for overnight reduced rate electricity, and there are a couple of (elderly-looking) storage heaters in the place.

Bit of a debate going on at the moment about the relative merits of overnight storage heaters / fan heaters / radiant heaters / oil-filled heaters.

Heating's only required during shop opening hours (10:30am - 5:30pm) - so my thoughts are to use overnight cheap-rate mains to charge up storage heaters... but what does the team think ?

In my workshop I use one of those low-wattage (3 x 400w switchable) quartz radiant heaters - I was thinking that this could be arranged to supplement the night storage and warm up chilly shop-assistants...

Comments / suggestions / advice please?

Thanks Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall
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If you already have them and the appropriate tariff then you might as well use them I suppose (but check the sums carefully). But they are not worth buying if you have any other means of heating.

Oh and watch that your electricity company is not ripping you off with insanely high "estimated" bills based on peak winter usage during mid-summer (ours is - we just spotted it).

Air curtain fan heater at full width and variable speed over the door to keep warm air in and make sure the warm air is stirred up evenly. Convection heaters are basically a waste of space - even more so if they are restricted to the modern safe operating surface temperatures.

A bit like cool-wall toasters they don't work!

You can have insane amounts of old style too hot convection heating in a large tall room and it will still be freezing in the populated zone until the entire room fills with warm air from the top down.

Reply to
Martin Brown

Hi Martin There's nothing else 'built-in' to the shop. We have 13A sockets, but I'm aware that standard-rate electric heating is going to be expensive.

Just moved from one supplier who insisted on 'guessing' our usage, rather than either taking a reading themselves or using my meter reading - so, yes, we're aware of that problem.

Hmm - I'm trying to educate shop-sitters to keep the door shut. There's a feeling around that if the door is shut then potential customers won't have the sense to operate the door-handle..... (though I don;t really agree).

The ceilings are fairly low - maybe 8ft - but my theory is that it's better to use the storage heaters to provide a level of background heat, and then, if really necessary, top up with a localised radiant heater....

..we also need to look at draughts - you could limbo under the back door!

Thanks Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Storage heaters will work BUT you have to train the shop staff to -

- open the output knob slowly throughout the morning until about 2pm when it should be fully open.

- close the output knob at closing time so the heater recharges overnight

Otherwise you will be sitting with a storage heater full of heat (or empty of heat) and the shop staff will be cuddling a 3kW fan heater at peak rate.

Remember cold will sink to the lowest part of the floor - a small platform behind the till will lift feet out of the cold floor and increase perceived comfort.

And fit a spring closer and draught strip to the shop door.

Any radiant heaters should be permanently fixed and above head hight for fire and personal safety.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

Ah - interesting.... Trouble is - it's that first bit 'train the shop staff' that's going to be a problem . I honestly can't see that bit working, though I do understand the principle behind your plan. I couldn't get away with having the 'output' control left 'partly open' and allowing heat to leak out that way ? (I realise it's not as good a solution - but labels saying 'don;t touch this' are easier than expecting people to do something complicated, consistently...)

We did put a rug under the counter - that helps.

Draught strip won't be a problem - but there is this mad idea that customers won't come into the shop unless the door's ajar....

Yes - that could be tricky...

Thanks

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Storag heaters cost half the price per given energy than plug-ins. If strage is their main or only means of heat, staff will soon learn. If it falls below 16C, the heating is there and you've trained and required them to use it.

NT

Reply to
NT

If only..... Sadly - our 'staff' are volunteers - which limits the ways you can 'encourage' them to do things

The most likely problem I can see with Owain's scheme is that folks will forget to close the 'output' control at the end of a day - so all the heat will be gone by 11am the following day...

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Sounds like time to put in properly controlled storage heaters, if your old ones arent.

NT

Reply to
NT

Customers shopping in the winter will be dressed for the cold outdoors, so you don't necessarily need to have the place at living room temperature - actually, that would be uncomfortable for them.

This is a problem for the staff though. Some heating around the till area is probably called for, but also they should dress warmly. There may be a minimum working temperature specified for that work environment.

What about a raised floor with built-in subfloor heating? With suitable side walls all around up to at least counter-top height, including a sprung door to seal the entrance, that area could be kept warmer. It would generate a localised temperature inversion.

Also, this often means you are paying a premium rate for your daytime electricity. You probably need to work out, averaged over a whole year, if the night time reduction is worth any daytime premium.

You really do have to be incredibly careful if you allow the staff to control the heating (switching it, adjusting it, and most particularly, moving it). They won't do it right anyway, and they may create serious fire risks. I would say a system which requires their manual intervention is unsuitable. Also make it clear they aren't allowed to bring any heaters in and no portable heaters are allowed on the premises. Watch that the storage heaters don't get things piled up on them, or in front of them.

They cost a fortune to run, particularly the electric ones. I presume there's no gas heating on the premises?

Reply to
Andrew Gabriel

....

Their instinct is better than yours. I expect the passing impulse buyer to be a significant part of your business and they want to feel free to leave at any moment without making a purchase. An open door will make them more welcome to come in and to feel more relaxed when they are inside. Having to open the door and close it behind them creates a greater feeling of commitment to buying.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

On 30/06/2012 11:45, Andrew Gabriel wrote: ...

Specified minimum working temperatures are long gone, in favour of the temperature being 'reasonable', although the guidance to the regulations suggests that 16C would normally be a reasonable minimum for sedentary work.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

That's why I mentioned it.

Volunteers do think that knobs on storage heaters do be witchcraft.

Ideally you would have fan assisted storage heaters controlled by an external stat and timer, which couldn't be fiddled with

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they cost.

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Reply to
Owain

Hi Andrew Good point - I'll try and remember that for when we have our next discussion....

That's an idea - but I'm not sure we have the space. The till area at the moment is just a smallish table - we're goingt o install a proper counter - but it won't be big...

We've got two separate meters, but I guess it's possible that we're paying a penalty for the cheap nighttime electricity

Yes. Don't like making rules - but some are necessary. Earlier in the year 'somebody' found an old oil-filled heater and plugged it in for the day with the thermostat turned up to '11'. Had to explain things to them....

Sadly not - it's a choice of nightstorage and/or standard daytime electricity.

Thanks Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

HI Colin Always a matter of balancing the theory (speaking as a Sociology / Psychology graduate) with the common-sense.

While what you're saying may be correct (and I know you have experience in this) - I can't justify heating the entire street because we've got to leave the door open.... This time of the year it's not a big deal - but, come October, I'm afraid that door'll need to be closed.

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Ah - you've been there, then ?

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> but they cost.

Ouch! - don't they ??

There's one storage heater installed, plus another sitting under the stairs - I guess it might be worth checking them electrically before getting too far down the storage heater route...

but I can see it being tricky to position it somewhere where it'll be out of the way...

Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

Since you have them, try the storage heaters first. They ought to work well for that pattern of use - especially of one closes the dampers right down at the end of the shop day. The usual problem of running out of heat too soon may not be a problem before 5:30.

The infra red heaters can be good if you can get the nice long wavelength ones that don't look like a halogen light!

Reply to
John Rumm

Hi John Yes - I think that's probably the best plan. Not sure I can rely on any scheme that involves people doing things with knobs & dials.... but maybe there's some setting that is a reasonable compromise.

Yes.... good point.... Thanks Adrian

Reply to
Adrian Brentnall

If there's a daily cashing-up sheet for the till then put a reminder on the bottom of that.

Or a notice next to the lightswitches.

Or a tag on the shop door key.

Or all of them.

Owain

Reply to
Owain

That is the whole point of air curtains over open doorways. They create a barrier that keeps warm air in the building during the winter and, if the building is air conditioned, keep the cool air in during the summer.

Colin Bignell

Reply to
Nightjar

Depends to some extent what you sell... for example, if you sell necklaces then people are going to take their coats off to try them on. If there's any kind of 'trying on' area - either a fitting room or a mirror, you could arrange that to be nearer the source of heat.

Theo

Reply to
Theo Markettos

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