EICR , smoke alarms and rented flats

[ARW]

OK so not DIY but some here do find such info interesting.

I am doing an EICR on a block of 38 rented flats all owned by the same company. One and two bed flats with just a single mains powered smoke in the hallway (as per regs when they were built in 1994)

Out of the 16 I have tested 8 of them have either had the MCB to the smokes turned off and the battery removed, the mains disconnected at the smoke and the battery removed or the smoke heads have been removed.

I accept that the tenants have probably done some of this DIY themselves to save buying a new battery.

However the most disturbing one is a flat that a tenant moved into 4 weeks ago. The mains had been disconnected from the smoke, taped up and shoved into the ceiling as well as the battery having been removed. Almost certainly like that when she moved in 4 weeks ago.

[Max Demian]

If they are linked burning toast in one flat will set them all off.

[spuorgelgoog]

I don't know how much smoke detectors have changed, but my five never have false alarms. I have to go around testing them intentionally.

Or perhaps my cooking's got better.

Owain

[Robin]

It's a sad reflection on both landlord and tenants. I can only hope the EICR is for a new owner/agent who wants to do better and not just 'cos the insurer wants one.

[Tim Watts]

The only thing that sets mine off is plumbing soldering. Or very occasionally if I griddle-pan chargrill several chicken breasts and forget to open a door for the duration.

[John Rumm]

Yup same here...

and all 4 are interlinked. Fortunately I fitted a mute/test/identify switch next to the CU, so I now have people programmed to mute them when I am plumbing! (it keeps them muted for about 10 mins as well)

[tabbypurr]

I suspect it's one of those systems that false alarms too frequently for the tenants to tolerate it. There are such systems out there. Last one I saw they had difficulty accessing the 'turn it off' function too. People get seriously fed up & detectors get disabled.

The companies that put systems in don't always do it adequately in this respect, leaving an LL that doesn't know how to solve it. Some systems are genuinely not livable with.

I'd ask the tenants about it and maybe flag this as a likely explanation, recommending it be made livable.

NT

[harry]

Frequent false alarms lead to people ignoring them too. Years ago ISTR an incident where people in a tower block ignored the fire alarm for this reason, it was a real fire and someone was killed.

[Dave Liquorice]

removed.

Implying that the Land Lord didn't check the detector as part of any "pre delivery inspection".

Which depending on the buildings construction (and modifications) might be a good thing... However such a system has to be fairly immune to false alarms from burning toast, or the smokes will get disabled. If the kitchen opens into the hallway the chances are it won't be immune to false alarms. A hallway detector needs to be a smoke based one not temperature.

[Brian Gaff]

Weird indeed. Seems people will do anything to save a few pounds rather than worry about safety. Brian

[Brian Gaff]

I don't think he said they are. Often it depends on the construction of the building. Some blocks are designed so any fire in one flat is isolated by the doors and windows of that build. IE what should have happened at Grenville but was cocked up by the refurbishers. Brian

[Dave Liquorice]

Likewise, though I just put my ear defenders on (they are painfully lound) and press the test switch on the Locate/Test/Silence switch box and walk around rather than poking each one with a stick.

Hum, kitchen ones ought to the "rate of rise" rather than "smoke" detectors.

[ARW]

No. Not interlinked. These are mains powered smokes in the flats internal hallway. One smoke per flat.

The communal hallways are a different matter. ie they DO have interlinked mains powered smoke alarms. A pity that they all have low voltage batteries and the smokes are above the new suspended ceiling that was installed 12 months ago. All you can hear when you walk down the corridor is the smokes bleeping.

I will soon be installing a new 60 detector 8 zone bi wire fire alarm system for the communal hallways.

[ARW]

Domestic kitchens would normally be fixed temperature heat detectors and not smoke alarms or rate of rise heat detectors.

[ARW]

Both would get the same report.

[spuorgelgoog]

I wasn't sure if it was all in one building. As it is, has the landlord considered a full building fire alarm system with C-Tec Hush Buttons in each flat?

Provides an individual HMO dwelling with its own 2-minute silence facility (to BS 5839-6/12.2b) & 15-minute isolate facility (to BS 5839-6/12.2a).

Effectively stops the tenants permanently disabling any detectors as any faults will show up on the panel (and if the panel has an autodialler the landlord can be informed immediately and take appropriate action).

Unless fire compartmentation supports a 'stay put' policy then a full building fire alarm is probably required to get everyone out.

Sounder volume at the bedhead is likely to be an issue with a communal-areas-only system too.

Owain

[Peter Parry]

An alarm from burning toast is not a false alarm but the detector doing its job and alerting the occupants that it has detected the products of combustion (not necessarily smoke).

Therein lies problem, Mrs Smith is a bit forgetfully and often singes the bacon or overcooks the toast. Mr Jones the student doesn't understand that letting the baked beans sit on the hob for 60 mins will write off another saucepan and set off the alarms. Mr Williams who works nights is seriously pissed off by being constantly woken by these events so whacks the detector until it stops making a noise. Mr Abdul smokes a Hookah which regularly sets off the alarm because some well meaning idiot put a detector in the lounge.etc. No one has yet discovered a reliable "Hey this really is a fire you need to do something!" alarm.

[Max Demian]

...but only of interest to the owner of the toaster, not the entire building.

[ARW]

The fire alarm went off on Monday when I was changing an emergency light at a hotel. Everyone ignored it as they thought it was me that had set the alarm off!!!!!!

Not one person (other than me) looked at the fire panel. Burnt toast in the staff room was the cause.

[tabbypurr]

it's a false alarm because there is no fire, no reason for the occupants to evacuate.

Yes they have. They're called heat alarms. The reason we also use ionisation & optical detectors is because they detect real fires much earlier in the process, giving much improved odds of survival. The downside is false alarms.

Perhaps the way forward might be a building-wide heat alarm system with local ionisation alarms that only warn locally. Maybe.

The other somewhat obvious thing is to position the alarms correctly, something many simply don't do. Advice to do that even got deleted from the wiki. Even an ionisation alarm doesn't false alarm in a kitchen if positioned well.

NT