easy way to generate an ac signal

6 or 8 weeks, ISTR. I was away at short notice. My other cars were OK. I knew batteries lose their charge but didn't have time to disconnect anything.

The $64,000 question is;

Is the sequence of events I have described impossible or merely unlikely?

I already knew it was unlikely since I'd previously jump started dozens of cars (and at least one since) with no problems and had a memorable WTF moment when I saw the red battery charging light on the dashboard.

The only difference is that I'll be less likely to offer help with jump leads in future in case someone decides I owe them an alternator.

Reply to
Onetap
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I don't consider breakdown services professional. Or rather not in my experience.

Perhaps you've been lucky.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

In your original post you suggested it was likely:-

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From: Subject: Re: easy way to generate an ac signal Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:20 Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y

The diodes get fried if you try to jump-start a car with a flat battery, so that someone's dad will probably have a car alternator with fried diodes in his shed that you can modify to get the AC out.

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If you have friends like that I'd avoid helping them at all.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

sounds far more dangerous.

Chain mail gloves from your local butcher's tool supply shop. No problem. :-)

Reply to
John Williamson

stop the diodes getting fried? I didn't notice any such gizmos. Please tell me and I'll have a look. I still have it in the shed.

Fatter diodes and overcurrent sensing to chop the field coils

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

When you said I should have sought professional help, I undersood that I should have got a 'professional' mechanic, rather than an enthusiastic amateur.

So what did you have in mind. I should have got a mechanic who was CEng IEE? Or that I should have got a doctor to jump start it like in Casualty? Or a clergyman to read the last rites over it? I'm sorry if I misunderstood you.

Yes, I did say that. Mea Culpa. I should have said "...could get fried". I'd have been more careful with the phrasing if I'd known it would be so contentious.

In fact I've started two cars since then, both for strangers, with no subsequent alternator problems. I'm nice like that.

So are you going to answer that question or continue dodging it?>

Reply to
Onetap

You could try reading the answer I've already given.

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

No, you haven't.

Is it possible or merely unlikely, that is the question.

I can't assess how likely/unlikely it is since it has only happened to me once.

Is the sequence of events I have described impossible or merely unlikely?

Reply to
Onetap

That should have read " Is it impossible or merely unlikely"

I am being careless with my phraseology today.

Is it possible or impossible?

A lot of people don't seem to believe me. Please give us all the benefit of your wisdom.

Reply to
Onetap

each phase so a total of 3 modified sine waves.

The precise current waveform out of a car alternator depends on it's construction, rpm, field current and terminal voltage.

Reply to
Fredxx

u need to jump start a car.

ry had enough charge, then turn both off and disconnect the jump leads.

So how is jump start any different from reconnecting a battery you have previously disconnected? And how do you start the engine if the battery is flat.? Nothing you say makes any sense.

Reply to
harry

I said electrical rotating machines. And not laboratory devices.

Reply to
harry

Nope? Response of a half wit.

Reply to
harry

e:

cs in the regulator and the diodes".

The basic principles remain the same. And always will.

Reply to
harry

Car alternators are modified so that the normal sine wave is "clipped". The modification is the strange shapes of the pole pieces on the armature/rotor which distorts the magnetic field it generates.. This means that there is less ripple on the rectified DC. This prolongs the life of lights. It also means the alternator is less efficient due to increased iron losses. It also means as it doesn't generate a sine wave, it is useless for the purpose advocated by some people here who don't seem to understand how electrical machines work..

Rpm. field current, and voltage have no bearing on the wave form. A sine wave is a sine wave is a sine wave. It either is or it isn't.

Reply to
harry

Every wave form is either a sine wave - or the sum of multiple sine waves.

Reply to
polygonum

Yes I did Fourier years ago. If you want to be pedantic the first harmonic.

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don't come the idiot

Reply to
harry

Your DC motor with a commutator doesn't 'generate' a sine wave either from that DC but seems to work quite well...

Reply to
Dave Plowman (News)

"Clipped" Can you give a reference for that Harry?..

Really?..

Well where do you want to define that then at the output terminals or pre rectification and relative to where in the windings and under what test conditions..

;)...

Reply to
tony sayer

Its clear you have never worked with alternators, or built regulators for them, and don't have a clue to their characteristics.

I cannot believe you say that the waveform, and here you haven't even specified if this is the rectified current output or voltage output waveform, is independent of rpm, field current or output voltage.

I have never argued that the claw type field alternator ironwork might create a modified sine wave, but I can assure you that stator leakage inductance will go a long way to smooth out current ripple. You also haven't considered the battery impedance in further smoothing of output voltage. Low voltage filament lighting also has sufficient mass to further smooth any variation in temperature from a minimal voltage ripple.

Regarding whether a sine wave is a sine wave is a sine wave, Catnic took to court a number of manufacturers who were infringing their patent. Although the patent used "vertical" and their opposition were using off vertical sections, ie at a slant, even in the pedantic world of patents, Catnic won. In other words if it looks nominally sinusoidal, it probably is.

If you can produce real alternator waveforms, which aren't clipped by rectifying load (ie no load), that are near square then I will be impressed.

Reply to
Fredxx

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