DIY behaviourism?

I and some of my friends, being vulnerable people are installing wireless door intercoms on our houses. The problem with these devices is, that, unlike their wired brethren, you cannot instigate a conversation with the person at your door unless they actually press the button on the device. Its a bloody big button, but seemingly we have an issue of the people who do not like door bells, who persist on using rattling of letter boxes, banging on windows or using door knockers etc when, as we see it its bleedin obvious there is a bell push. Who are these increasingly frequent visitors, not the Police though they do seem to be one of the groups who do this, no its apparently sane individuals. So two answers. 1. try to find a door intercom that can instigate comms from inside that is not wired. Seemingly and perversely, not possible as nobody does one unless you want to power the outside station from a wall wart. The reason is that the batteries would go down if it had to listen for the inside unit polling it. The other option is to somehow convince callers to use the bell push and only the bell push. So if anyone has any bright ideas that do not involve 50,000 v on the outside of the front door to 'discourage' the errant behaviour will be accepted. Not sure if perhaps a big day glow arrow pointing to the bell would work as its visible enough already.
Brian
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On Thursday, 29 December 2016 19:24:46 UTC, Brian Gaff wrote:

I have a wired system with the same problem. It's a 'feature' designed to stop other flats listening to my visitors and vice versa.

A PIR detector wired to activate the call button. You can get solar powered PIR led lights so the PIR circuit must be low enough power to be run off a solar panel and battery.
Infra-red break beam detector, although that would need a power source.
A burglar alarm pressure pad under the doormat wired to the call button, although they might not be weather proof.
You can get door knockers with an electric bell push underneath the knocker part, so knocking would activate the call button. Likewise a microswitch on the letterbox flap - although that will be set off with every takeaway menu delivered.
Owain
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Yes, I've not looked at the inside of the bell /speaker box as yet. I'm also not convinced of the waterproof of these devices either.
However since there is in effect no porch the mat idea is a no go one. PIR, well that would as you suggest go off every time somebody moved in the allotted area, including me. I guess if its got to be some kind of external device then it will have to have mains power. I had hoped that since the outside device has C cells in it a low power receiver might be able to be run continuously. It surely should only take a few milliamps when its just monitoring. As I say, my wired one which is on its last legs now can be operated inside without the bell push being pushed outside as its a very simple amp that one just changes the speaker and mic over on. It needs the user inside to do the direction switching whereas the wireless one works a bit like a speaker phone in that it goes both ways once the button is pushed but the level is adjusted so the person speaking can be heard without any problem which ever way around it is going. Of course if both people talk together it can be awkward. I just feel that its over designed in this respect but the obvious feature is not that the. Brian
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On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 19:24:41 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

Perhaps a separate wired or wireless speaker in the front door area, which you can use to say "STOP BANGING ON THE DOOR AND PRESS THE BLOODY BUTTON!!!!!!!"
Gives you another option apart from an intercom but no idea if these things are available.
Cheers
Dave R
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On Thu, 29 Dec 2016 20:23:27 +0000, David wrote:

I keep thinking about a vibration sensor to do that. We can't hear a knock on the door everywhere in the house. We can hear the 'bell' as it rings all the phones.
One would have to deactivate it when the door is open, etc...
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Like I say this Response electronics one I think will be fine to replace thewired one i have had for years, see earlier posts on this, however I suspect that I'm going to still miss deliveries and some callers. My neighbour seems to have a thing about door bells. her excuse is that she can't be doing with them, she has not got one just a knocker so she never thinks to look for a bell, intercom at all.
I'm also convinced that some delivery drivers have some reason for never actually doing more than shoving cards through letter boxes, so maybe there is some mileage in a letter box warning device at least.
When do they start delivering by drone? Brian
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Much quicker to pre-write the cards then just pop them through the letterbox. Rather than wait for the door to be answered and a signature obtained. But firms which do a free second delivery don't do this. Only those where you have to collect the goods yourself if they can't deliver.
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Like I say, I have a wired device already and these do still exist and are cheap. The issue is that at least in my case I might not even be inside the house so would miss any delivery idiot who feels the letterbox rattling is sufficient. Also of course if I'd wanted one of these devices I'd simply by a new one to replace the old one. The idiot brigade broke the old ones bell push early in its life and I had to wire one normal push in instead. Its obvious to me that the general public can be illogical and very stupid at times, and designers of any product to be used by them needs to both design them for use by an idiot and a person who thinks pushing it harder will get a response faster. Brian
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Makes more sense to automate that with a shock sensor on the door and window.

Trivial to DIY
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On 29/12/2016 19:24, Brian Gaff wrote:

I suspect that somewhere within the mire of the internet of things there may be an answer.
I'm trying out an Amazon Echo and Samsung 'smartthings'. All I can say is that the various 'things I've got do work very effectively, but I'm not exactly a power user. Things like switching lights on/off, controlling the heating, detecting doors open, movement. The Echo responds accurately to my voice commands.
Within the smartthing app itself, and by extension the various forums, many hundreds of permutations are set out/discussed. From a quick look there are push/pull actions that can be triggered by proximity - not sure which might work best for you.
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Yes a lot of blind people are using the dot, as they work weel and over time it is no doubt going to be possible to operate a device outside this way. Seems to be rather overkill though. Its the human behaviour we need to alter I think, trying to cater for every idiot out there is a thankless task. Who was it who said as soon as you make something idiot proof, somebody designs a better idiot? Evolution again.
Brian
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Couldn't agree more!
I think all of this automation and remote doings leads down a very rocky road.
Apart from altering behaviour in some odd ways, the data farming takes everything to a new level. There's something very 'loss lead' about it all, reminding me of when Google was no more than a usefully benign search tool.
I was talking with an environmental scientist over xmas - he's worked for a medium sized consultancy for some years. It's got to the point, he says, where the client data they've accumulated is worth more than the company.
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Cheers, Rob


On 30/12/2016 09:27, Brian Gaff wrote:
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I don’t, bet it ends up vastly better than we had before.

Sure, but any technology does that. The technology is useful anyway.

You don’t have to have your data farmed if you don’t want to.

That’s paranoia IMO.

But plenty of technology can't be exploited like that.
And even with the stuff that can, like electronic payment methods that are much more convenient than cash, I couldn’t care less if some multinational knows what I choose to eat.

That is hardly ever true. I couldn’t care less that the telcos I use know who has called me and who I have called.

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Trying to change human behaviour is an even more thankless task, particularly with delivery apes who have a real incentive to card you instead of pressing the bell or banging on the door and waiting to see if you will answer the door.

That’s bullshit with this situation.
When you live alone, does it really matter if a PIR or light beam does ring the bell when you come home ?
And even when you don’t live alone, its really no big deal if it rings when you come home and quickly changes to a different chime when you open the door immediately.
And a fancy system can work out its you from your phone bluetooth and not ring at all when its you too and can automatically open the door for you too.

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On 29/12/2016 19:24, Brian Gaff wrote:

That's the problem. It's wireless and it's shit.
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Erm what has that to do with the problem? Are you saying that wirelessness induces stupidity into people? Brian
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On 31/12/2016 09:14, Brian Gaff wrote:

No. I am saying that wireless systems are shit.
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On Saturday, 31 December 2016 09:26:26 UTC, ARW wrote:

You're just envious because no-one's paid you to fit a wireless doorbell!
Owain
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On 31/12/2016 09:28, snipped-for-privacy@gowanhill.com wrote:

My neighbour has a wireless doorbell.
It goes off whenever someone uses their car remote control so they have just taken the battery out of the pushbutton.
So now they have the most useless of all doorbells, one that suggests that it works, but actually doesn't. I suspect this is why so many callers just bang on the door instead.
At least my wired friedlander runs off a transformer in the CU and it illuminates an led in the pushbutton, so callers can see that here is an active doorbell if they come in the dark.
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On Saturday, 31 December 2016 15:48:16 UTC, Andrew wrote:

l!

Years ago I pressed a bell button & silence, nothing. So I knocked. The occ upant got a little florid with his words at that point. Clearly he hadn't f igured out the value of letting people know it's working, and after a dose of verbal abuse no-one had bothered explaining it to him. I didn't either.
NT
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