Damn :-(

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Been browsing an american tool store and I'm bloody sad. ;-(

A porter-cable router for 78.42GBP

31.56GBP for this why is this country such a big ripoff.

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Sorry it takes you back to the home page. Anyway it was a Ryobi 1.5hp router

[Weatherlawyer]

There is a malady in this country that makes everything 1.6 times more expensive than prices over there. It was once brought to everyone's attention because of the price of CDs in Robber Britain.

So where does the piracy come in? I have never seen a cohesive, logical, cogent answer.

[Mike Dodd]

So?, why not import the bugger?

[Andy Hall]

The Porter Cable routers are worth having, although I guess the one you are looking at was the fixed base one. These are fine, but take some getting used to if you are familiar with plunge machines.

The Ryobi one is no better than Ryobi stuff sold here, and the router is distinctly marginal, so wouldn't worry too much about that.

The store you found, Home Depot, is the world's largest DIY retailer by far. Lowe's, another U.S. retailer is no. 2, and our very own Kingfisher (B&Q, Castorama, etc.) is no. 3. It won't have escaped your attention that B&Q bears an uncanny resemblance to Home Depot right down to the meet and greet guy at the door.

There has long been an issue with pricing in the U.S. being lower than in Europe on various goods.

Factors are:

- Customer expectation

- Volume. the big Chinese manufacturing operations like Techtronics (who make Ryobi and various private label stuff, can give much better pricing to the buyers from HD for example.

- Exchange rate. Right now the pound is trading at $1.90, making dollar priced goods appear cheaper.

- VAT. 15-25% in Europe. In the U.S., the closest equivalent, sales tax is 0 - 8.5% or so.

I quite frequently buy tools in the U.S. and import them. There's a few caveats:

- It's not worth it for low priced items because the shipping cost becomes significant. Exception is if you make a trip, buy a lot of stuff and bring it back with you. A £145 customs allowance for duty and VAT helps as well. A £200 ticket to the East Coast can make this an interesting exercise.

- Tools are 110v. This is not a problem for those with universal motors (most hand power tools) - you can run them from a site transformer - but probably is for anything with an induction motor because these are often designed for 50Hz or 60Hz operation but not both.

- Warranty. Probably not economic to return a low value tool - or even a higher value one.

So I choose carefully. I only go for tools where I know that I can get spares in Europe. This has to be watched, because sometimes there are subtle differences in certain components to meet market requirements or safety legislation. For example, you may notice that the PC router has a toggle switch. That's not considered acceptable in European safety requirements.

The grass can be greener, and there are some good things to be had, but it is necessary to shop carefully.

[Andy Hall]

Not worth it.

a) Shipping cost would exceed price of router

b) It's junk anyway

[Guy King]

The message from Andy Hall contains these words:

And consumer rights in the States aren't a patch on what they are here. They rely on caveat emptor rather a lot.

[Andy Hall]

... and in this instance, the practicality of invoking same.

[John Rumm]

What like:

to buy it here then! ;-)

[dennis]

The prices in the shops didn't include the sales tax last time I was there. It gets added at the till.

[The3rd Earl Of Derby]

Thats a plunge router. ;-)

[Graham]

Do the Yank checkout operators have to deliver those "Staff announcement, customer service seven-thousand, checkout two please!" soliloquies?

[Owain]

"That's a ten-four good buddy and thank you for shopificating at Home Depot."

"Buy any five kitchen units and get a free turkey fryer or bag of bullets"

"Security to the ammo and explosives aisle please"

Owain

[John Rumm]

Even better then ;-)

[Jerry]

Depot right

I was once at the checkout in a large (warehouse) shop when a member of staff put the following sort of announcement over the PA 'Can the duty manager please come to the customer service desk'. There was a elderly chap in a B&Q uniform at the next checkout, when he heard the announcement he walked forward, slammed his goods down on the counter and shouted at the stunned till operator "You should use codes like we do, not tell the world your business" and stormed out the door!..

[Phil L]

It works like this; In America, they make products and sell them at the cost of materials, plus all charges incurred in making them, plus a small amount for the profit margin. In the UK we make products and sell them for the highest price that we think we can get for them.

The UK is the motorway services of the world, where everything costs 3 times as much as it does in the real world.

[Guy King]

The message from "Phil L" contains these words:

It's called "gouging" and there's a lot of it goes on.

I don't know if this is still the case (it probably is), but a few years ago, Dixons used to have meetings at which they'd play with unbadged samples of new electronic gizmos like radio-cassettes and Walkmenalikes and clock radios etc. They'd decide what perceived level of quality they fitted and choose a brand name to assign them to. Then they'd negotiate with the holder of that name (like JCV or Sanyo or whatever[1]) and set a price which was for all intents arbitrary - just so long as it was more than they bought it for! The actual markup was wildly variable.

[1] The dregs got branded Saisho.

[Andy Hall]

Err... no. There is the same lack of manufacturing industry in the U.S. in the tools and machinery sector as there is here.

Operating on low margins, if one is manufacturing and taking the development and service costs, only works if the volume is high enough to amortise them.

[Andy Hall]

Yes it does, that's quite right.

If you go into a store like Home Depot and explain that the goods are for export and that they shouldn't charge sales tax, there is likely to be a blank look. Even if you speak Spanish it doesn't help.

Some of the professional tool stores are geared up for not charging sales tax. You have to fill in a form and they take a copy of photo ID like a passport.

So the equation, if you shop in person, becomes one of does price plus sales tax cost less than a UK purchase, bearing in mind £145 VAT and duty allowance.

If you shop remotely, the sales tax is not charged, but there is VAT and duty on the whole thing. Also. some traders charge a lot for packing and shipping. This can be circumvented by having a DHL or Fedex account and telling them to use it.

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[Andy Hall]

Oh yes.

The boot's on the other foot. Every concept in B&Q has been faithfully nicked from HD, right down to the plastic buckets instead of baskets..

One thing that HD does have that is good is self service checkouts. They have stations where you scan each item yourself and it goes into a bag. You pay at the end and away you go.