Sunny xxxxxxx as it happened, but he was in the company of his solicitor when he collapsed . . . In a police station - obviously dead, but no one wanted a death in the police station !
If I remember correctly there was long discussion between police / ambulance control / solicitors before he was moved into the ambulance and later pronounced dead IN the hospital.
(Name of large Lancashire mill town redacted)
John
Thinking has changed a lot on this.
Current advice has changed a lot since the early 60's when "You must NEVER give chest compression to someone who has a pulse / circulation" was the rule.
Now the advice is "If they're not breathing" (no check for a pulse) "give CPR"
John
I haven't looked recently, but the ones I remember (Liverpool, Manchester, Leeds and S/stead) all have signs saying **Only to be used by trained personnel.**
Whereas the one in the rugby club I was in on Saturday night had no such warning. Nor do the ones in all the supermarkets in France and Spain
John
+1 And every village /council/ parish /scout group will have an item for one of their meetings that will keep interest for most of the evening
John
Those of you with longer memories may recall the stone ages before there were paramedics and defibrillators.
When the new era dawned, there were fund raising events all over the country to collect the money for these new fangled life savers. The vast majority of the early ones were bought by the public because the NHS didn't have the cash for them.
But now (as with body scanners and other modern tools) it's out of the question to *not* have them
That would be because no AED was available early enough and bystanders were worrying about being sued instead of
*doing* something (CPR + use of AED)John
I believe all members of the Health and Care Professions Council have a 'duty of care' and must try to assist.
Yeah, I'm half aware of some of the changes. I think the X compressions, 1 mouth to moth has gone. Just do the compressions, if you are doing them properly enough air will be being expelled and drawn in with each compression.
I'd like to know the reasoning. Is it down to those wasted seconds early on seriously reducing the already poor survival chance.
See here;
A paramedic can pronounce death (Recognition of Life Extinct) but can't issue a death certificate.
Yes
1 The way the brain cells die. It's thought that brain cells die after 3 mins without O2. But they don't all switch off at the same time. Think of a ballroom with scores of twinkling lights. One goes out somewhere, then another somewhere else, then a few over in the corner, then some over in another patch and so on.So 30 compressions / 2 breaths is the ideal aim for treatment to prevent deterioration
2 There may be a lot of residual O2 in the blood. (depends why the person is not breathing) Early CPR -even without M to M- should pump O2 containing blood to the brain where the oxygen can be used to extend cell life.If for any reason M to M is not possible, just do the compressions and use that residual O2
3 Important reason. By reducing the variations and options the helper has to think about, they are less likely to baulk at doing it and dithering in case they "Do the wrong thing" This (hopefully) gets them to start sooner.Although the protocols are different for infants/children (only slightly) If you only know one protocol *Just do it* ie child protocol for an adult, or adult protocol for a child is far better than worrying about getting it wrong
John
No such general duty exists. A person, whether a healthcare professional or a member of the lay public, who witnesses a situation ?in the street? where life-saving First Aid might be required is under no obligation to assist, provided the situation was not caused by them.
However, if that person, whether a healthcare professional or a member of the lay public, does choose voluntarily to intervene to render assistance they will assume a duty of care towards the individual concerned.
Given that the Health and Care Professions Council members include Social Workers, Arts Therapists and podiatrists this may be a good thing :-)
When off duty they have no more responsibility to help than any other member of the public. They have no duty of care and are not obliged to help.
She could however be sacked or disciplined by LAS.
In article , Peter Parry scribeth thus
FWIW I believe in some other counties France perhaps, there is a duty of care to assist others in distress, something in the Napoleonic code or some such ..
That might be a load of bollix but it is given in good faith;!...
No she couldn't. The LAS Policy Statement of Duties to Patients clearly places no requirement on its staff to give aid to anyone when off duty.
(S7) "Legally, there is no requirement for an off duty member of staff to act as a Good Samaritan (unless you are identified by a member of the public as a registered health care professional) and the LAS is not legally required to support any member of staff who chooses to act as such."
Although it doesn't even promise to support them if they do try to help it does state
"However, as a general rule, in such circumstances the LAS Trust Board will support any member of staff acting as a Good Samaritan, providing that they:
Are in the United Kingdom at the time (to meet the requirements of the NHS Litigation Authority indemnity scheme). Have due regard for their own health, safety and well-being, and that of others. Work strictly within their limits of training, competency and certification as they would whilst on duty. Make best efforts to ensure that full ambulance support has been requested in the interim. Give a full hand over to the arriving ambulance response or other health care professional on scene."
The only medical professionals required to give aid are doctors and that requirement is contained in the GMC Code "Good medical practice" which states:-
"You must offer help if emergencies arise in clinical settings or in the community, taking account of your own safety, your competence and the availability of other options for care."
That is not in line with the undertaking Doctors, even medical students, must commit to.
You are correct, Doctors give a specific undertaking to help whether on or off duty and their professional insurance covers them when they do. However, the title "Healthcare professional" does not normally apply to doctors or nurses but usually to the 16 health and care professions regulated by the Health and Care Professions Council. This includes podiatrists, social workers, paramedics, occupational therapists, dance therapists and soon, herbal therapists.
That's because breathing is quite easy to detect, a pulse far harder.
Especially by someone semi-trained and very stressed.
Andy
Yep, or even well trained and stressed
John
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