OT Poor windmill!

[EricP]

A wind turbine that cost the Welsh government £48,000 to buy has been generating an average of just £5 worth of electricity per month.

Now gone missing in action. LOL

[Ian Jackson]

In message , EricP writes

A couple of weeks ago, on LBC (James O'Brian's spot, I think), it was repeatedly said that during March and April, wind provided 20% of our power use. On Gridwatch, I've rarely seen it much over 5%. It's doing pretty well today.

[The Natural Philosopher]

The Greens are shameless liars.

It's no more complicated than that.

They have forgotten why they are greens in the first place - now its just a peer group things - sign up and be fashionable. Repeats the same mantras and pretend to be kewl.

Dorks par excellence.

[PeterC]

There's one windmill that seems to be working: Glyndbourne's. 90% in the first year and 102% in the second. Of course the energy isn't at the correct time, but for a place that uses a fair bit it's a hell of a saving. Seems that the genny doesn't have a gearbox, so that reduces wastage and noise. Some of the info. in the PDFs is a bit suspect but that might be just non-tech. confusion (our LA somehow thought food waste could run a GW+ genny

- might have been an "h" missing somewhere!).

[The Natural Philosopher]

No. That kust means they are shamless liars.

90% in the

90% of what?

102% of what?

Of course the energy isn't at the correct

And efficiency.

Average capacity factor of a small wind turbine is around 10-15%.

That's not technology, that's pure physics and weather.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I looked at the figures. It generated abut 154KW average in May.

That turbine is at least a 1MW beast.

The 90% and 102% refers to 'our electricity consumption ' - that is they can by shoving up a million quids worth of turbine generate on average enough electricity to run one small office and opera theatre.

The true dependency on the grid is hidden in the import expaort fiugures. They imported twoce as much as they exported and around 40% of all the electricity they used was imported.

That demonstrates that whilst you can make a financial case of self sufficiency the engineering reality is that the windmill does not 'supply 102% of their needs' This is a lie. The windmill relies on the grid to operate and sometimes it has surplus which it sells at an inflated price and sometimes it has not enough when it imports at a market price.

>

[Andy Burns]

Generated power as a percentage of consumed power apparently, I suspected it might be done on the value of FITs received c.f value of power consumed basis to look good, but the monthly figures look straight ...

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yeah. It became clear. So its really a meaningless figure.

Sizewell B generates 100,000,000% of my electricity consumption.

That's good innit?

[Brian Gaff]

Until we find a really efficient way to store electricity, then a lot of these sorts of power sources cannot be relied on and tend to be kept as last resorts, hence them not being part of the main load bearing resources and accordingly under use. Brian

[Jethro_uk]

One day, someone will write a book, or make a film. It will start with the idealism and hope after the second world war. It will chart how well meaning, sincere folk started to realise that we can't just rape the planet and not pay. These evolved into the counterculture of the 60s, which were derided, mocked and ridiculed by mainstream society.

Then, somewhere between the 60s, and the 90s, a sort of critical mass was reached - maybe the 1984/5 Band-Aid/Live-Aid phenomenon ? Either way, somehow, people in suits with wire-rimmed glasses and red braces had an epiphany. They realised you could actually SELL being green. You could slap the word "organic" on a food and double the price. So they did.

What was brilliant about this, was that it was the environmentalists that were effectively paying for the marketing. Every Greenpeace ad about the environment would see a jump in sales of "Eco" this, and "Green" that.

And our lords and masters looked upon this, and they saw it was good.

And thus it came to pass that the 1980s misbred young executives that were heavily advertised became the advisers and policy consultants of the

90s.

And lo verily, did the notion of "Green taxes" be dreamt up. For they did see, that whilst Joe Public might be narked about an extra penny on income tax, the same Joe Public would queue up to "save the planet".

I'm sorry, but personally I think the worlds public have been hoodwinked on a massive scale. "Green energy" is a good example. It's doing f*ck all for the planet (in fact it's a net carbon contributor) but it's doing wonders for the firms that build the kit, and wonders for the upper- middle classes who actually get paid up to 40p/unit for the electricity that they put into the grid which is charged at 10p/unit.

Everyday I see many small things that could save a shed load of energy. Very simple things. But guess what ? There's no money in it for anyone, so it's ignored. Which leads me to my view of life. "If it *really* mattered ..."

If reducing emissions *really* mattered, you'd have a planning and tax system which encouraged work from home, and staggered working hours. That would cost very little, but - guess what ? No money in it. In fact you'll find behind the scenes the road and rail lobby would HATE any idea like that. So it's left alone.

When the government *acts* like it matters, then I will.

What I find particularly depressing, is people who are a victim of bad science in one area, appear to be willing to fall for it in another.

I manage to avoid long debates on climate change now, by just saying: "Define climate. Define change".

FWIW I have a more Gaian view of things. We live in a symbiosis with everything on earth, including the Earth. And just like a body with an infection, if we start to make the Earth poorly, then it's immune system will start to kick in to eradicate us. Or, alternatively, like a cell about to divide, we somehow manage to become 2 cells. But that requires interplanetary travel on a scale way beyond out capabilities. Especially if our offspring are more content to watch Celebrity Big Brother rather than design a better mousetrap.

Here endeth the rant for today :)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Exactly so.

Green idealism is infiltrated and taken over by rent seeking profiteers.

Now its a major part of the problem.

[Huge]

[89 lines snipped]

And very good it was, too. Hear! Hear!

[Dave Liquorice]

Yep, "Save the Planet" is a load of bollocks, the planet will survive quite happily for a few more billion years until the sun becomes a red giant. We as a species might not be still on board though.

But TBH we are so adaptable and can make and use use tools, create our own local enviroments, etc it would have to be a pretty major, global, event to wipe us out. We could be pushed back to hunter/gathers with a global population measured in a few hundred in just a handful of places and we would bounce back. How many do they reckon walked out of Africa, a dozen or so...

[damduck-egg]

And who are we saving it for anyway. For the Children? It's programmed into humans to want the best for their progeny but why should they worry about other peoples . And in the survival stakes giving your own a head start while using earths resources to make them healthy,well educated compared to others who want them to live like waifs in centuries past can't be a bad thing. And then there are people like myself who haven't got any so I will use some of the resources any descendants may have used with a clear conscience. And no I don't care what happens to other peoples descendants, if I did have some they would be rivals.

Once you get away from family ,some friends and others you have worked with,been taught by etc the death of other people shouldn't really be that personal a thing to get worked up about. I can't really understand the mass outpourings of grief for people who are really strangers engendered by events like the death of Princess Diana. It's cultural in some instances caused by religious upbringing or living in Liverpool.

G.Harman