Combi fans: is bigger better

[IMM]

Well they defy Andy's version.

< snip babble >

[Andy Hall]

If he can remember what the subject was for more than 10 seconds.

.andy

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[IMM]

Well those fascist violent people who want to kill for sport have been legislated against, and the Tories/royal family are implicated in breaching the Commons to commit violent acts against democracy. I am appalled and admire the way the government banned the scum. The level of violence perpetrated against our good policemen was appalling.

Now to ban bargain hunting.

[Andy Hall]

This, of course, is what it is about - legislating against the people.....

I really don't think that one of the perpetrators being a friend of Prince Harry "implicates the royal family".

That would be like saying that everything the my son does implicates the royal family because he played rugby with Prince Harry once.

I agree that this is inappropriate.

Almost as inappropriate as the use of the Parliament Act and engineering the timetable in a pathetic attempt to avoid it being an election issue.

Now of course it will become one - not because of animal welfare, but because of inappropriate interference in people's lives and the abuse of power to do so.

So you're proposing to shut down Harrods?

.andy

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[Pete C]

It looks like it can give a pretty decent shower by most peoples standards, or a couple of fairly modest showers at the same time.

I'd say it represents fairly good value for money, how much did your boiler and store cost? Added to that there would be the cost of getting an installer in to connect them together.

cheers, Pete.

[IMM]

Legislating against very bad killing people.

No smoke withOUT fire.

Of couse it is.

Killing is killing, and it should not be for sport. Did you see the eyes on those murderers? Appalling.

That place is a pest when the sales are on. Have you the eyes of those bargain hunters when the doors open?

[IMM]

And that it can. His system can run out of hot water, and it will using 25 litres/min showers. The CB50 does not run out of hot water being two stage flowrate combi.

His costs the eath. He would have been better off having two combi's fed from the storage tank by a booster pump. Then all the house would be on high pressure hot and cold water.

I did similar in a house with a poor mains flowrate. I instaled a Gledhilll Systemate heat bank and fed it off the cold water storage tank. Before there was an awful large cylkidner with pipes and valves hanging off all over the show making it look like a boiler room. It also had a noisy power shower pump that looked awful taking up space too. Now a nice square box with all pumps inside out of the way and a booster pump in the loft out of the way. clothes can be stored on top on the Systemate too.

Looks like the one on the left here:

spec: Added to that there would be the cost of

[Andy Hall]

Not really.

The fact that you term it "legislating against people" really does give the game away as to the motivation.

Did the Sun say that?

So presumably anglers are the next on your agenda.?

... or would that limit your profession as a master baiter?

Day trippers from Milton Keynes presumably...

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

You can work out how long the water will last from the store - about

90 litres when mixed with cold accounting for a 6 minute shower at 15lpm. After that, it drops to 11lpm

The first is just about acceptable until the store runs out, the second is piss poor.

There is no way in hell that this will feed two even modest showers unless you consider low end electric showers acceptable.

It depends on whether you think it does the job. I don't think that it does do anything beyond the needs of a fairly small house with one bathroom, so it doesn't matter how cheap it is if it isn't suitable.

Boiler and cylinder together were about £1800.

I can run two showers or a shower and a bath very quickly and not have to worry about them going cold or taking an eon to fill and run.

No because the cylinder isn't pressurised.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

Of course it will - as soon as the little store runs out. Then it's down to 11lpm of warm water.

Complete nonsense.

Why on earth would I install two high flow rate combis? This would be the requirement to come close to the delivery capacity of the storage system and then an upgrade to the gas supply would be needed to run them.

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[IMM]

Oh my God more mentalist. The store stores water at least at 60C, we shower approx at 38-40C as the water is being drawn off the boiler is simultaneously re-heating. You have been told this so pay attention.

My God! a house gas supply can give 212 cy foot per hour. Yu can buy two combi's that consume close to that figure giving about 25 litre/min. And no cylinders and a backup if one drops out. Lateral thinking me boy.

Two combi's consuming 20 cu foot/hr will pour the water in me boy, pour it in.

So two Alpha CB 50s would be well within a domestic gas supply and give you showers in abundance and NEVER run out of water, and no tanks or cylinders and natural,CH zoning of one down and one doing up.

[IMM]

Hot water me boy. You need to know this.

A better solution for you no doubt.

To give high flowrates.

Upgrade to the gas supply? The gas mains can provide 212 cu foot per hour, which is approx 200,000 btus input.

No it said left.

[Andy Hall]

40 degrees is skin temperature - I wouldn't describe it as hot.

I don't deal in deprecated units.

This amounts to just under 60kW and is just about enough to run two entry level 28kW boilers leaving nothing for other appliances. An upgrade would be required.

We certainly know that.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

I did, and I also produced the complete calculation demonstrating how poor the performance really is.

It is bad practice to use deprecated units. It is even worse to mix them.

Your suggestion would produce 22lpm of warm water at 40 degrees and require the entire supply to do it, leaving nothing for other appliances.

It would still need roof storage in my case and seemingly in a lot of other people's cases as well and still not protect against a failure in either the electricly nor the gas supply.

In short no redundancy apart from appliance failure.

I have complete backup for all services and appliances and can get superior performance so there is no point in worsening that.

Trickle, more like.

Right on the edge and requiring upgrade to run anything else.

unless any single one of the services fails.

I don't live in a one up, one down.

.andy

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[IMM]

If a 1" gas main the meter can handle 100% overload. Easily 300 cu/foot hr. There you go. You cam use two 40kW W-B Greenstars giving 32 litres/min for

2K and natural CH zoning up and down. One does one bathroom one the other. Brilliant.

[IMM]

It was wrong.

Stop making things up.

A;All that expensive kit and space it takes up.

You really don't know.

And Krakatoa could erupt too.

Gosh....

[Christian McArdle]

But would still take over 5 minutes to fill a bath.

Christian.

[Andy Hall]

So does Transco approve running their services in this way.?

Perhaps you could call them and ask and then post the name and number of the person that you speak to so that people can check for themselves before putting themselves in danger.

.andy

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[Andy Hall]

Er no.

The equation of

Vc [Tf - Tc] = Vh [Th - Tf]

is the correct one to apply when liquids of different temperatures are mixed.

I know that division and multiplication are a bit more difficult than adding and taking away, but you'll get to that in next year's class.

The arithmetic is quite clear.

I don't have a space problem for it, and more to the point is does the required job.

You need to read through the sums. Don't worry about the multiplying and dividing - it's similar to the adding and taking away

- you just do it more times.

In the last year, I have had failures of all three services at different times.

It is quite common so depending on something needing all three is a risk.

.andy

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[David]

I thought in general a bath was meant to be a relaxing experience, what is the obsession about having it filling in less than 2 min?

And what happens to everyone when IMM enters a thread, OK, so he's an arse but he does actually have some decent info on high flow rate combi's.

Andy and IMM need to take there personal wee chat over to e-mail after about 5 posts here, when they both then start to repeat themselves ad nauseum.

David