charging 20% VAT for domestic-use firewood - advice?

[harry]

Plenty firewood ends up on the verge where I live. It's a race to get there first these days.

[McKevvy]

Indeed. I go camping on a Scout site where the local builders drop off the wood they remove onto the site because it would cost them to landfill it. Everyone benefits. (railway sleepers give a heck of a heat off!)

McK.

[McKevvy]

Would his local Trading Standards office help? Perhaps they might (or might not) be a bit quicker in action that the HMRC.

Mck.

[Obadiah Binks]

Which is where I used to get mine but remember that they usually have the owners name stamped on them so it is theft.

[McKevvy]

You will find that if you go around comapnies and offer to remove their pallets for them -even for a nominal fee - they will gladly let you do so. If they have to bin it then it costs them money.

McK.

[Steve Firth]

Report them to HMRC. You can bet your bottom dollar that they are not paying 20% VAT to HMRC. i.e. it's a VAT swindle.

[Dave Liquorice]

I don't trundle down to the wood yard and pick up 1200kg of logs...

Had to dig about on the website of our log supplier to find what VAT rate they charge as they quote prices are "all in" product, delivery, and VAT (at 5%)...

[Huge]

VAT? On logs? Don't you pay for them with grubby fivers?

[Peter Crosland]

Sounds dodgy to me. I would make a formal complaint to to HMR&C.

[Alex Heney]

This is the important bit.

It doesn't matter in the least what the customer says he is going to use the wood for, it is all down to whether the *seller* states he is only selling the wood as firewood.

If he doesn't, then it is standard rated.

[Fredxx]

They might, but the ultimate responsibility of ensuring the correct rate of VAT is applied is with HMRC.

[Alex Heney]

"Obviously" in just what way, exactly?

Presumably it is "obvious" because you have decided they are crooks, and therefore they must be doing so - a rather circular argument.

Unlikely. There would be no point in them charging VAT at all in that case, they would be better off just quoting an all-in price to the customer.

Who will come round and say "OK, they are doing exactly as they should".

That is a different (and valid) argument.

[Fredxx]

Is it not the same as books which are zero rated? Where P&P is correspondingly zero rated?

Using the same argument delivery should also be subject to 5% VAT.

[Alex Heney]

Which is correct.

It doesn't matter in the least what you are actually going to do with the wood (or say you are).

It is what they are purporting to sell it as which matters.

If they are selling it *only* as firewood, then the lower rate applies.

Otherwise the standard rate applies.

Decide whether the total cost is good value for you, and pay it if so, don't buy it if not.

I don't imagine they have done it at all, so it is neither.

What we found worthwhile was going to the local council - here (Merthyr Tydfil) they charge £55 for a "load" (which is 1.25 tonnes) of cut and split wood.

Whether they will have it available (and what types of wood) does depend on what they have recently been felling/trimming of course - and it will not be seasoned.

[Mrcheerful]

It may be that 'postage' is a different system to 'delivery' (such as courier etc.) I am struggling to find a bill that fulfills the requirements. HMRC must be the people to ask, I found them very helpful when I rang about something.

[The Natural Philosopher]

From the green fraudster of the group,. that is a bit rich.

>

[harry]

Which fraud? Fraud is something illegal. I don't do anything illegal.

[Brian Gaff]

Do hmrc have an enforcement arm that one might be able to get to sort these people out? I mean, I'd imagine domestic fuel oil could be used to power an engine so this would make it taxable at 20 percent I suppose.

Brian

[The Natural Philosopher]

That's why its very illegal to fill your diesel car up with heating oil.

It works though.

[The Natural Philosopher]

You do. Every time you open your mouth.