buying a house with a 'loft conversion' - what questions do I ask?

Roof windows of the Velux type are not usually considered to be an adequate means of escape. Firstly they can be difficult to get out of, either because of their height or the way they open (or both). With some it is very easy for the window to close on someone getting out and if they then try to get back in they get stuck.

Secondly, the escape is onto a downward sloping roof. It is often difficult to get a grip on the roof tiles and the head first downwards exit is difficult, frightening and, unless there is a flat roof within feet, dangerous in itself.

Moreover in a fire if a roof window is opened it creates an airflow which draws more oxygen onto the fire below making it more severe and bringing more combustion products into the room. In attic conversions, especially non-compliant ones, there is rarely any way of closing the attic off from the rest of the house - it can only be done from below (if at all) so unlike a normal room you can't close a door before opening a window.

Death in fires usually occurs due to asphyxiation. Contrary to popular belief it isn't the smoke which kills but the relatively transparent gasses which often precede the smoke (hence the use of "products of combustion" rather than "smoke").

Opening a roof window often produces an immediate enhancement of the fire which encourages panic in the occupants of the room. It also draws more poisonous gasses into the room. Unless people can get out very quickly they will soon lose the ability to escape.

There are however a vast range of individual designs. For any particular one the only reliable way of assessing its potential for escape is to try it. There are some basic rules -

- If you need something portable to stand on (other than perhaps the bed itself) to get out it is unsuitable. Sods Law makes it a certain that whatever you need to stand on won't be there if its needed.

- If the window can't be fully opened without fiddling with special catches it isn't suitable.

- If it doesn't have a flat roof immediately below which you can safely roll someone on to, it isn't suitable.

When you try your escape test do it blindfolded and have someone spin you around a few times in the middle of the room first. Try the same with the youngest person you might expect to have to escape and the oldest. If you don't find it easy to get out in these simple circumstances you can be pretty sure you won't in a fire. Children in particular panic easily and don't naturally run to escape from danger - they hide from it. After fires you find their remains in wardrobes, cupboards or under beds - even when there had been time for them to escape through smoke.

Risk analysis really needs to be taught to people. I know of a family who are completely paranoid about their children's safety and terrified that any accident will befall them. They have little plastic shields in every electrical socket, plastic corner protectors on every table and escort them across a sports field 100 yds to school and back every day. The two children (twins) sleep in an attic conversion. When you look down the stairs from the attic you can see the open plan living room and kitchen two floors below. The attic room has two Velux windows with child resistant catches which open onto a steep roof with nothing but the gutter before you hit the ground.

These idiots actually had the conversion built like that, they didn't try to get it done properly because "enclosing the staircase would have spoilt the open space".

Reply to
Peter Parry
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As you probably know its difficult to break double glazed windows - the air cushion between them makes them very resistant to being broken by furniture etc. However, a simple way to convert any double glazed window into an escape window is to keep an automatic centre/nail punch (eg

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in a clip by the window.

Press it into the window and the first pane will instantly shatter, repeat for second.

It is wise to mount it out of the reach of 4yr olds!!

Reply to
Peter Parry

That's true if the window is in a room which is capable of being isolated from the rest of the house by a smoke stop door. In most non-compliant installations it isn't and once the roof window is opened the situation quickly worsens and you have little choice but to get out.

Firemen generally will only use external window access if they can get a vehicle mounted ladder to it. Trying to get people through a roof window and onto a freestanding ladder (even with one fireman outside and one inside) is fraught with danger. It's usually better to go in through the building.

Reply to
Peter Parry

How about:

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Reply to
John Rumm

Wow! Thanks everyone for the replies. This is great - it's given me plenty to think about. I don't have kids so unless any decide to break into the loft this shouldn't be an issue. Still, I'm not that keen on climbing out onto the roof myself so if I were to buy the house I think I'd have to take steps to make it safe before I put the room to use.The stairs to the loft drop into one of the bedrooms, rather than the stairwell, and the stairwell itself is enclosed so the addition of fire doors might at least improve things, and then that just leaves the problem of the stairs themselves. Thanks all for the advice - particularly the safety aspect as a lot of this hadn't fully occurred to me. I'll try and find out more about the existing work before saying yay or nay.

Reply to
Calla

the space of the present stairwell so spirals are out.

Steven.

Reply to
Steven Campbell

Steven.

Would this work?

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They can be curved or not as needed. I've used them in France on concrete floors, but don't know about them meeting UK regulations. Being open, though, I wouldn't fancy using them over a stairwell

Reply to
JohnW

On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 11:01:07 +0100, a particular chimpanzee, JohnW randomly hit the keyboard and produced:

They're what's known as a 'space saver' stair. They are acceptable in a straight flight with a handrail on both sides, giving access to a single room in a loft conversion only when a conventional stair cannot be fitted.

Reply to
Hugo Nebula

Then you will need to go for a multiple winder stair. You can get a staircase into quite a compact space if you do say three steps, a half landing, turn left 90 deg three steps, half landing, turn left 90 etc.

Reply to
John Rumm

Indeed. My staircase here fits into a 2.2 m square footprint IIRC.

All totally to building regs.

It is in fact two straight steps, followed by three 'winders' followed by a straight step, followed by three winders, followed by two straight steps and the landing.

It uses the absolute minimum of footprint that i could get, within the regulations.

I think, depending on how the existing staircase runs, a pattern like that would preserve minimum headroom above existing stairs..

Reply to
The Natural Philosopher

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