Bending 22m copper - annealing?

Well - I guess I've been mostly bending 15mm with a pipe bender.
Had to do some 22mm today - boy does it need some welly.
Someone (Andrew G IIRC) mentioned something about annealing pipe before bending.
Question - given half-hard tube is made thinner because it's half hard, are there any implications in annealing cooper and leaving it soft?
Common sense says don't soften it where a compression fitting is going - but apart from that, is it a problem?
Whilst I *can* bend half-hard (as long as the pipe bender doesn't slip out of the B&D Workmate and clang me in the nuts as I sit astride it to get some purchase) there are a couple of places that being able to slip a pipe spring in and give it a tweak in situ could be handy....
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On 25/10/2014 20:11, Tim Watts wrote:

I find the trick is to place one arm of the bender on the floor, then push the other one down. That way one is making any spare lard work for you ;-)
(I can also do it with one arm of the bender flat against my chest, and then pulling the other with both hands toward me).
Either technique tends to avoid any unwanted metal to dangley bits contact.

No... also once you have bent it, you will have started to work harden it again.
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On 25/10/14 21:18, John Rumm wrote:

Ah - interesting...

Given how much force I had to use, I think it would cleave my sternum in half! My bender is not an expensive model - perhaps the arms are relatively short compared to some? It does the job but it's never been an easy beast to handle. I have got it nicely marked up in accurate calibration marks (start of bend point and common angles) though which is handy...

Perhaps I should try bolting it down to the workmate with brass pipe clips... I'm relying on clamping the arm in the vee of the workmate right now which is not a model of security!

Thank you - I will try that on my next bend. I expect it to be *much* easier and more controllable.
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On 25/10/2014 21:29, Tim Watts wrote:

Try wiping some lube on the pipe where it will bend.
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On 25/10/14 22:05, John Rumm wrote:

OK - will do...
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I'm not convinced there's any significant sliding action there at all.
One thing to be careful about is that the bending formers remain clean, because any tiny bits of grit present can get forced into either the pipe or the formers during bending.
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Andrew Gabriel
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On 25/10/14 22:51, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Good point - thanks Andrew...
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On 25/10/2014 22:51, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I think there is sliding; the pipe actually slides down into the groove on my bender, and I think there is some axial sliding too. But I agree completely about grit.
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On 25/10/2014 22:51, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

With a decent bender it ought to make no difference. With a sloppy one it can help a bit.

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On Sat, 25 Oct 2014 23:56:29 +0100, newshound wrote:

Except that the pipe is round and the "same size" as former. So shouldn't actually be touching until the pipe is being forced into the former. Tolerances on pipe and former may mean that some combinations are tighter than others.
Bending 22 mm is hardwork, I have a proper Hilco not a cheapy and use the "one handle on floor and my weight" method of bending. I've also lubricated all the pivot points and bearings, any reduction in friction makes it just that little bit easier... I may have given the formers a squirt and wipe with DFL.
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On 26/10/14 11:03, Dave Liquorice wrote:

I seem to be getting the knack... The start is the hardest - once it's moving it's a lot easier. No idea what make mine it. I'm happy it puts the bend in without rippling - just a very slight "knee" at the start and end of the bend.
First thing I did years ago was calibrate it by bending some 15mm and marking the pulley at the *real* bend angles :)
Anyway - just put a 51 dgree bend in to match the roof slope and my son reckons it looks "right" from below :)
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Dave Liquorice wrote:

I must be a gorilla then, only had a couple of 22mm bends to do when upgrading my shower, for which I couldn't justify a bender, so just used a spring and my knee ...
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Ditto.
I enjoy bending copper with a spring and a knee. I do draw the line when it comes to 20mm steel conduit though!
I think that it must be something to do with the look of neatly bent pipe, but I even enjoy bending conduit and threading it. Not sure that I would want to do it full time, but the odd bit here and there is fine though.

--
Bill

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On 26/10/14 12:36, Bill wrote:

Are we all buying the same pipe here?

I am surprised by the times steel conduit should be used but isn't. Like a high school gym near here - plastic conduit in the sports hall along with trunking, most of it smashed in various places...
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Tim Watts wrote:

It does mean the only way to get the bend near the end of a pipe, if that's what you need, is to make it closer to the middle and chop the end off.

Similar to you mine was "old stock" of whatever's lurking in the garage since the last time, presumably half-hard, I recently had to buy a single 2m length from SF - it ain't cheap now is it?
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You really need a floor standing bender for 22mm - and definitely for 28mm. But they are large to store and expensive to buy.
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*'Progress' and 'Change' are not synonyms.

Dave Plowman snipped-for-privacy@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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I had some "vandal proof" CCTV cameras to install in a block of flats a while back. the ceilings in the corridors were concrete, I used 20mm steel and clamped it every 24" the locals haven't managed to pull anything down, or cause any other damage, yet. Although they have spray painted the domes a few times. (Every camera had another camera that viewed it, so good shots of the painters.)

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Bill

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?@#$!?!?##!!
I am swearing a LOT right now...
2 bits of pipe later and still cannot get the over-stairs run right. 90 degree at one end, 45 at the other (to miss a lump of wood).
Bugger it - I'll do it in two and put a joint in the middle - should have done that in the first place.
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A plumber was admiring my work a few years ago (specifically all my radiator tail offsets), and said they never try to put multiple bends in one pipe - they join the bends together afterwards on the straights.
ISTR that after installing the whole central heating system, I had a couple of scrap pipes left with double bends (not in a single plane) where I got the second one 180 degrees out from what I had intended.
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Andrew Gabriel
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On Sunday, October 26, 2014 5:55:51 PM UTC, Andrew Gabriel wrote:

Too many years ago now to remember quite when (workshop notebooks might sho w but how much time to search through them all!) I installed a Dunsley Neut raliser to marry the back-boilered wood stove to the oil CH boiler. Four i nput pipes, four output pipes and one vent into a 9" x 6" x 6" steel box. This is at the top of a cupboard so there was not much space. The wood bur ner and hot water pipes are 28mm and did have to be bent to get them to fit , so don't come moaning about bending 22mm!
Rob
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