Bending copper pipe to wide radius

I need to bend some 22mm copper pipe into quite a wide radius curve - is it possible to use conventional pipe benders to do this (the type with long handles)?
It's just that from looking at them, they appear to have a fixed radius former - or is there a way of increasing the radius of the curve you make?
Above all, I need to produce smooth curves - is there a better way of doing it?
Any advice would be appreciated...
Nigel Lord
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get a pipe spring, http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?id 076&tst183 1.99 then you can have any radius you like
--
Vass



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Only as long as the length of the spring.
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Doctor Drivel wrote:

You could bend a long radius with a shorter spring - you'd have to keep moving the spring along and bending just that part of the tube - it might be a bit tedious, though.
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With a large radius it is best to use sand..
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Doctor Drivel wrote:

Quite possibly - if the radius is really long you wouldn't need anything! I wonder what it's for... gardening?
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Not quite possible it is. This is not open to debate.
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No-one remember Peter Parry's instructions regarding pipe bending: http://tinyurl.com/bq5fq ?
Mungo :-)
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Nige wrote:

How wide is quite wide?
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Cap up one end, fill with fine sand, cap the other end. Bend over suitable structure to make the curve. This could be you knee or two metal rollers. First anneal it. Where the curve is to be heat the copper to cherry red then quench in water. This makes it more pliable. You will need a substantial blow lamp to anneal it. You could try it cold first, it may work. When making the bend, do not make sharp pulls, Gentlly move up and down the bend pulling a small amount at a time.
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I've done this to bend 28mm copper, for which I don't have a proper pipe bender. However, your annealing process is for wrong metal. Copper is annealed at 700-800C (can be done as low as just over 400C, but you have to hold it at that temperature for a long time). There is no state change on cooling copper, so quenching is not required -- you can cool it over as long a period as you like. The annealing process for copper is reversed by flexing and vibration, not by slow cooling. If you quench it just for ease of handling, watch out for being burned by steam and boiling water spraying out.
For the sand, make sure it's dry or you'll have difficulty getting it out of the pipe afterwards. Even so, I sucked a large cotten wool ball through the pipe with a vacuum cleaner several times to remove as much sand residue as possible (this was a gas pipe, so I don't want sand getting into the boiler). A sand bag makes a good bending former. Do not try to bend near the end of the pipe -- saw any excess off afterwards.
For 22mm pipe rather than 28mm, I would however use a bending spring for this purpose. You should still anneal the pipe before bending it though.
--
Andrew Gabriel

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Andrew Gabriel wrote:

I'm not sure about your terminology or where the last sentence comes in, but heating to red hot and quenching is fine.
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The fact that it works does not mean that it is the right technique. As Andrew says, the right method for a soft anneal is to bring the copper to dull red (600-800C), not cherry red (900-1650C). The method of cooling is also irrelevant. Quenching may be convenient, but it can also be quite dangerous if done improperly. Copper will anneal just as well if left to cool in air.
Colin Bignell
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nightjar <nightjar@ wrote:

And so - it will work, which is what I *said*.

I'm afraid you have imparted no extra knowlege whatever.
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...

You obviously take no pride in your work if you do not prefer to use the right method.
Colin Bignell
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On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 00:01:33 -0000, "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert my surname here>.uk.com> wrote:>

*Right* is a concept which exists only in the minds of *people*. There are always different ideas of *right* held by different groups of people.
What OP is saying is follow my opinion of right. -- Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> 17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
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...

Copper anneals at dull red heat and melts within the range of cherry red heat. Presuming that melting the tube is an undesirable result, the right method is set by physics and is not simply an opinion.
Colin Bignell
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On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 08:20:23 -0000, "nightjar" <nightjar@<insert my surname here>.uk.com> wrote:>

The ?laws? of science, including physics, are *only* an agreement by scientists in general that this is the best idea of reality we have at the moment. Popper IIRC believes that all "Scientific laws" will be overturned or drastically modified within 200 years of formulation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_law

generalization based on empirical observations. They are conclusions or hypotheses which have been confirmed by repeated scientific experiments over many years, and which have become accepted universally within the scientific community.<<< Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Popper
A classic example of laws being found wrong is Newton's Laws of Motion, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion which still describe motion of most bodies in an *Engineering* sense perfectly. However they fail on an atomic scale when Quantum physics describes atomic and sub atomic particles better. Also they fail on an astronomical scale where Einstein's theories of relativity give better results -- Dave Fawthrop <dave hyphenologist co uk> 17,000 free e-books at Project Gutenberg! http://www.gutenberg.net For Yorkshire Dialect go to www.hyphenologist.co.uk/songs/
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Which is utterly irrelevant. Deeper understanding of the physics of copper does not change the underlying physics of how it behaves when heated.
The mechanics of forming copper have not changed throughout human history - and what happens when you bend it and heat it is unlikely to change in the future.
New physical laws have to fit within existing observations, which means that it's very, very unlikely anyone will work out a different way to anneal copper using heat.
Many areas of physics have been explored with exquisitely sensitive instruments, and all the existing laws work down to those scales.
If you have a new theory, it is only useful if it conforms to all existing experiments - or it's patently false, or if it differs in some way from existing theory in some way that's testable.
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nightjar wrote:

Are you really a contemptible pillock?
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