Anyine taken a garage to court?

[The Natural Philosopher]

I took my car in to have two centre prop shaft bearings replaced and they have damaged the front coupling to the transfer box - it now has play in it.

I wrote a letter by recorded delivery explaining why I knew that this was the case, and asking them to contact me to take the matter forward. They have ignored it.

I am not sure how to proceed, Assuming that this ends up in the small claims court I am conscious of the need to proceed with caution. Should I insist that they fix it? I am concerned that I am using a car that may damage itself further if driven with an out of balance prop shaft. Or should I get it fixed elsewhere, and claim the money back? The cost of doing that ranges from a new 'spider bearing' at £36 plus labour through an after market prop shaft assembly at £100 plus labour to a full Land Rover OEM part at £200+ plus labour at main dealer prices.

My question is really how the court would look on each approach. I.e. should I fix it and claim and if so at what level? Or should I take them to court before fixing it so they have the option of fixing it for free? And to what level should the (pretty old) car be fixed?

TIA

[AlexK]

That?s what I would do. They might well choose to do that once they realise that you will be taking it to the small claims court.

It should always be fixed at the sort of prices that you have listed.

[Jethro_uk]

This is one aspect of UK consumer law that is total and utter bollocks (IMHO). The clowns have f***ed up once. Why on earth are you *required* to have any faith in them thereafter ?

[The Natural Philosopher]

To be fair, I suspect they hadn?t done a freelander before and unless you KNOW that the front coupling is fragile and you have to tie up the prop shaft before removing the centre bearings and VC then its an easy mistake to make. The mechanic I spoke to was competent, he admitted he never disconnected the front prop shaft which the service manual issues dire warnings about if you don?t. He just made a mistake, that?s all. Of course he insists 'it was like that before I started' It wasn't. Immediately I drove it away I noticed the difference and drove straight back into the garage.

IS this an aspect of consumer law though? That is what I need to know. The easier way forward for me would, if it did not prejudice my position, be, to get an after market prop-shaft for £100 and get another garage to fit it and sue these guys for the cost.

[Jethro_uk]

At the risk of sounding snippy, would a competent mechanic have left you in the position you now find yourself ?

Maybe a legal NG is a better place ?

All I know is from years of reading Q&As, is that when you turn up in a court, the very first thing the mags/judge will do is to ask if you have exhausted *all other avenues* for redress. And if you haven't they can strike cases out, and leave you to foot the bill. It's the classic #1 mistake a lot of morons make. Rushing to issue a summons before anything else, which no court likes.

So you need to show you have done everything you can before you turn up in court. And that *usually* requires you allow the other party a chance to make good the problem.

Which is all very well in a fairytale where no one is crooked and setting out to rip punters off. However in the real world, it fails to address the situation where Bodgit, Son and Runne, are a midnight flit away from their last customer at all times ....

[The Natural Philosopher]

crossposted to uk.legal

OK good advice.

Which I have so far

Oh no. This is a well established and generally decent firm that's been around a long time.

They made a mistake, it's not shoddy work per se. I just want them to admit it and fix the problem.

[Jethro_uk]

There is a further problem, in that *if* they offer to fix it, they are de factor admitting liability. Which may not be a good thing further down the line. Which is arguably an artefact of our adversarial concept of civil law. Or not. I don't know.

There's also the added factor of any consequential loss. Once liability is admitted, it could lead to a lot more expense than the mere fixing of the problem.

What is the actual mechanical remedy ? I'm guessing it's a new <very expensive bit> + <a shed load of labour> = in excess of £500 ?

[tabbypurr]

You'll need an expert report saying it got damaged, and 3 written quotes for the job. It's ok to refuse to let the original person/company sort it if there's good reason, and it sounds to me at least like you could argue that realistically. They may argue otherwise of course, and will insist they did the job correctly and damaged nothing. With that point you seem to be in a position of just hoping the jp sides with you, which is a total gamble. Don't forget to claim £20 costs.

NT

[Chris Bartram]

If you're towards court action, an independent engineer's report on the damage before changing anything is the answer IMO. That way they cannot claim the repairing garage have damaged it; you have a known starting position.

Pragmatically though, it may be easier to get it fixed then attempt to recoup the cost. As the LR is a few years old, an aftermarket assembly would be my choice, if it was newer, I'd do OEM. If they've f***ed up one bearing, I'd be questionong their ability to have done the rest of it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

I am perfectly happy to sign an agreement to not pursue the matter firther if they do fix it.

Actually no. Its about £100 + 30 mins labour or £36 and about an hours labour

Or if taken to a main dealer what you said. £100 labour and a £300 part

[Jethro_uk]

Not sure such disclaimers can be enforced in court, but IANAL. (You can't sign away statutory rights AIUI)

Oh, FFS ! - Even 25 years ago, when I worked in trade I'd have done that without mention, to keep a good customer.

Are both those estimates for the correct job ?

[The Natural Philosopher]

Yes.

I diunno if you are familar with the front propshaft of a freelander but it has a sliding and slighly flexible coupoleing to the transfer box (stock UJs aft) The coupling consits of a three way, rather than 4 way 'spider' with roller beraing tips in cups, that fits over the prop shaft via sliding splines and is retained to the transfer box by a housing.

4 bolts and that bit all comes apart and the bearing can be replaced. Or take the front shaft off completely and dismantle on the bench. an hours work max.

IF YOU CAN SOUERCE NEW BEARINGS. Only one ebay seller has them LR sells a propshaft for £295 complete and after market clones are £100.

These are obviously 'fit and forget' solutions.

.

[Peter Parry]

It is because the EU puts a premium on "keeping the contract alive" and inserted the requirement that the company providing an inadequate service be allowed to fix it. (Consumer Rights Act 2015 S49 to 55.)

[The Natural Philosopher]

So I should write again reminding them that they have not advanced any proposals to fix it and warning them that if they fail to respond I will have no recourse but court?

[Jethro_uk]

I think I can picture it ... maybe fiddly, but nothing like having to remove the gearbox etc ?

As I said, for £100, I would have "just done it" and had a happy customer. But then again we never once paid for an advert in nearly 30 years of work ...

[Dave Liquorice]

One assumes it has been delivered and signed for...

How long have you given them to respond? Did you place a response deadline in the letter? Did you state what you wanted them to do?

Send another letter, recorded delivery, reminding them of the delivery date and contents of the first. If you can address it directly, by name, to the MD, all the better. Less chance of it ending up at the bottom of a service department clerks in tray.

Restate what action you expect them to take. State what action you will take if the don't respond within a restated (realistic) deadline. ie you get it repaired elsewhere and for them to foot that bill and if they don't you'll file Small Claims Court claim for that bill plus court costs and expenses (all those recorded letters, your time/inconvience, etc)

The aim being to give them ample oporunity to correct the problem and to be sure they know the consequencies if they don't.

You say they are "a well established and generally decent firm that's been around a long time." I'd expect such a company to jump once someone high enough up the tree becomes aware.

[Jethro_uk]

Funny that ... I had that grumble back in the 1990s too. In fact I first became aware of it when a friend of my fathers got ripped off by a builder.

Dastardly EU, using time travel to enforce their dastardly plans, eh ?

[Jethro_uk]

Ignoring the previous non-reply, you can try. However, even if they ignore you, and you get as far as a court issuing a summons, they can still apply to have it put aside on the grounds "they missed it". At which point a court will suspend any action to give them a chance to respond.

I know that much, because we had a customer skip without paying (long story) and they ignored all letters, and we got judgement by default. But the magistrate commented that they could have applied to have the judgement set aside on those grounds. (They didn't but then neither did we see the money ....)

[Peter Parry]

Yes. A court will expect you to have followed the pre-action protocols? and have tried to settle the claim before the last resort of getting to court. Having another garage fix it without giving the original garage an opportunity to do so and then going to court to claim the cost would be unlikely to succeed.

You should write to the garage setting out your claim objectively but not trying to tell them what caused the fault, so simply "excessive vibration from drive shaft immediately following work by you on bearings" Ask them to investigate and fix it .

Full instructions on using MoneyClaim (the most appropriate way to go) are at

I am concerned that I am using a car that may

No.

The latter, and the remedy is confined to fixing any damage that they caused, so you can't expect to get a new drive train installed when the fault they caused was to one bearing. You may need to have the car examined by an expert (another garage for example) to show the fault was caused by their mistake. The cost of that examination and report can be added to your claim.

[Peter Parry]

Yes, the Citizens Advice page I referenced has a suitable template letter to use. This has another

You will need to change them a bit as they are aimed at faulty goods but the principle remains the same.