Will Toyota's troubles move you to Ford?

[trader4]

Why don't you quote what Mulally actually said in that testimony to Congress that was pertinent to the discussion:

"On Tuesday, Ford Motor Company submitted to your Committee our comprehensive business plan, which details the company=92s path to profitability through an acceleration of our aggressive restructuring actions and the introduction of more high-quality, safe and fuel-efficient vehicles =96 including a broader range of hybrid-electric vehicles and the introduction of advanced plug-in hybrids and full electric vehicles. In addition to our plan, we are also here today to request support for the industry. In the near-term, Ford does not require access to a government bridge loan. However, we request a credit line of $9 billion as a critical backstop or safeguard against worsening conditions as we drive transformational change in our company."

And in the end, they didn't need even the the credit line. I think Ford deserves credit, not condemnation for being the only one of the big 3 that got through this without a federal bailout.

As for the claim that Ford didn't take govt money because people were watching, obviously that is specious because it didn't stop GM, Chrysler, Wall Street, the banks, etc.

[mike]

So what if others were more brazen? If he wasn't interested in stealing from me, he should have stayed home... like Toyota & Honda did, instead of asking for billions that no one in their right mind would give him out of their own pockets.

[clare]

And firmly embedded in capitalism and the "free market" economy by it's very nature.

[hallerb]

ford had already refinanced right before the economic dump, i believe the ford family lost control of the company at that point, they ere near bankrupt

[clare]

Ford didn't take government money because they didn't need it. They didn't need it because they had done most of the restructuring required, and the new product development, before the crap hit the fan across America and the world.

If I was buying a NEW vehicle today. Ford and Toyota would be top on the list. When I need to replace my current Ford and/or Chrysler, a USED Ford (again) is a distinct possibility. I'm on the third Ford in a row, along with the third Chrysler, with one (never again) GM squeezed in between. I've owned 2 Toyotas and driven numerous others before, and would definitely consider another if the price was right.

I only buy used.

[mike]

Uh-huh

And the reason the crook decided to stop prying my door open is that he suddenly realized that he didn't really need my new TV. It had nothing to do with the fact that I was yelling at him and pointing my shotgun at him. I should reward that chap and do business with him!

(Just as stupid)

Explain why Ford went to congress asking for billions. It's not acceptable. If that didn't make your blood boil, you weren't paying attention.

[mike]

What? Theft? Socialism? I reject that.

Just look at the smallest unit of capitalism: a voluntary exchange of goods between two people.

Both parties willfully exchange property for what they decide is in their mutal benefit. That is their right as they have a right the use and transfer of property that they obtained through their own efforts, their own life energy, if you will. It is not taken from them against their will.

[Kurt Ullman]

Ford has been working on greener cars for years. If the Meltdown had waited about 4 more years, I don't think Ford would have missed a beat. They were that far ahead of even the imports, IMHO.

[cjt]

Nope. Honda, probably.

[clare]

Ford never asked for money - they asked the government to back a limited line of credit IF REQUIRED, and asked the government to immediately help out their competition, who WERE hurting in a bad way.

Good of them, I thought.

[clare]

Capitalism and "free market" are not necessarily the same, but the "free market economy" is one of the anchors of capitalism.

The "free market economy" is an economy unfettered by regulations, where "anything goes" to make a buck. From backstabbing to theft to fraud, and just about everything else in between. The American banking system and financial services market are two good cases in point. The "pillars" of the capitalist champion of the world are both so crooked they have virtually brought the american economy down around their ears. The Stock Market is another "pillar" of the Free Market Economy, and capitalism. The "raise the dtock price at any cost" mentality is paramount in the "free market economy"

So my widespread observation and evidence, theft is FIRMY enbedded in the very fabric of the "free market economy" and capitalism by it's very nature - which is unfettered greed.

[Jim Yanik]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

you have weird concepts. Socialism is "by nature" "theft",as it depends on taking from some classes to give away to others.

Capitalism is in no way "theft".It rewards people who work hard by allowing them to keep what they EARNED.Only when "progressives" screw things up does it become "theft".

Without Capitalism,socialists/"progressives" have little to steal.

[Jim Yanik]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

But it's not a basic tenet of Capitalism or "free market economy".

You don't seem to be aware that "socialism" has been creeping into the US economy since the early 1900's. and since then,things have slowly been worsening.

[The Henchman]

Pretty tough to beat Subaru's at that year. Unfortunately I drive about 50

000 km a year so I concentrate on the newer used models for reliability and safety. All the gaskets and seals are still in good condition and the safety features I had considered going Subaru or Acura/Lexus/infinity for 10 year old plus vehicles but they are still too expensive to buy near me. I would have to buy a vehicle every 12-18 months at that rate, but the thought has crossed my mind plenty to buy cars 8+ years old and buy every year or two.

In terms of insurance cost American automobiles always seem to cost me less every year in insurance.

What is your yearly mileage??

[Joe]

Have your main squeeze bring them home in his tatty old pickup. He needs to be useful for something.

Joe

[clare]

You Yanks see socialism and communism behind every bush, door and fencepost. And socialism isn't theft if those who have willingly help those that don't - another quality that "capitalist" America is extremely short of.. I'm sure glad I'm not American. And doubly sure glad I'm not an American in government - particularly as president.

You yanks have to be the most difficult country in the world to govern. I though Canuks liked to complain, but it's just a whisper to America's roar.

[Kurt Ullman]

Okay, point to Mother Teresa on CNN... (g).

[Kurt Ullman]

BS. Socialism is by definition the state taking things. Not much willingly about that. BTW: The Fraser Institute's 2009 Generosity Index found that on a national level, 26.6 per cent of American tax filers gave to a charity compared to 24 per cent of Canadians in 2007. Total U.S. donations totalled 1.60 per cent of personal income while Canadian donations were only 0.73 per cent, translating to $10.1 billion less than the Americans. "There's a commonly held notion that Canadians are more generous than Americans, but this is clearly not true," said the report's co-author, Niels Veldhuis. "In Canada, this generosity gap limits the power and potential of charities to improve the quality of life across the country."

Finally got one right.

[Jim Elbrecht]

Well, sort of, in a democracy.

I looked over their table at

Interesting stuff-- but I'd need to study Canadian Tax law & income distribution to really know if it meant anything.

A couple things can throw the IRS numbers *way* off. Fer instance-- as far as the IRS knows I never donated a thing in any tax year I didn't file the long form. And a friend gets audited every once in a while when his donations far exceed his income-- on paper. By reinvesting in a good year he might not show any income-- but because it was a good year he feels particularly generous.

I didn't know we had a competition going. I'll try harder next year. . . U. . S. . .A . . .U. . S . . A . .U . .S . .A . . . .

Jim [OB- topic- bought a 2010 Focus last year. The only 'foreign car I ever owned was a Canadian built K-car.]

[Jim Yanik]

[e-mail] wrote in news: [e-mail]:

"You Yanks"...that's very telling. But it's clear you don't know much about socialism.

Uh,it's NOT "willingly" if gov't forces "charity". And it's well known that gov't is more inefficient at management of such things than private organizations.

I'm sure glad you're not American,too.

Shows what you know about it. Try Israel for instance.Or many African nations.

"The squeeky wheel gets the grease."

Of course,to one like yourself,voicing one's opinions is "complaining",particularly if they disagree with you.