Why street lights on all night?

[TKM]

A 2002 DOE report found that outdoor lighting in the U.S. used 58,000+ gigawatt hours/year. 93% of that went for roadway and parking area lighting.

And, that total doesn't include night sports lighting, on-premise signs, building floodlighting or landscape/decorative lighting.

There are certainly savings to be had no matter what you think about light and crime or safety. For example, what about the wasted light -- that portion that just goes directly up into the sky from poorly shielded streetlights? That waste has been estimated at 30% of the total power used by streetlighting by the International Dark-Sky Association. So, just controlling the wasted light would save $1.7+ billion per year if the electricity costs $.10/kWh. Depending upon the fuel used to generate the energy, less oil or coal would be used and less C02 and other environmental pollutants would be emitted.

So, at least reducing the wasted light that does no one any good seems like a no-brainer plus, as others have said, turning off or dimming down some streetlights late at night when traffic is light, especially on freeways, makes sense too.

Streetlights can now be addressed individually via internet technology and so dimmed down or turned off when not needed.

Some streetlighting is also excessively bright as the newer car headlights have some 4X the light output of older headlights. Oddly enough, headlighting doesn't seem to have been taken into account in the lighting designs for most traffic streets and highways.

TKM

[TKM]

If this is the level of logical thought our human race has been reduced to, I want out.

How about this logic? If light reduces crime, why isn't crime, especially household robbery, substantially lower during the daylight hours?

TKM

[HeyBub]

Okay, I'll play. Where would YOU put your bone?

[Oren]

Some people are home during the day and report crimes, when robbed?

[Oren]

The first train smoking out of town! Or call the power company for street lights, just so I could see.

[Steve Barker]

that's because it has nothing to do with it.

s

[Steve Barker]

duh... It is.

s

[aemeijers]

The scavengers that harvest other people's goods after midnight, would dearly love a blackout period. The 3rd shift cops, not so much. Visit a military base to see dark sky. Most of them have few if any streetlights, other than in family housing. Makes finding the BOQ lotsa fun if you get the main gate after dark. Military bases aren't real big on street and building signs legible by anyone over 25 years old, either.

-- aem sends...

[TKM]

Well, yes. Around my urban area, about half the homes are occupied with people who work at home, retirees, etc. My home has been robbed twice in the last 30 years. Once it was a kid who took a bicycle from an open garage. I reported that right away and he was caught. The other was more serious and involved 3-4 people looking for small stuff to sell for drugs. They kicked in the back door and took whatever they could find and wrapped everything in pillow cases and sheets from our bed. They even went through the boxes in the attic. A neighbor saw them and called police. We got our stuff back; but the thieves were never caught.

Both robberies were in daylight and this, overall, is not a high-crime area.

TKM

[Jim Redelfs]

Sez you. :(

I never said it did. I said it "was usually more expensive than leaving it on." There IS a difference. Figure it out, if possible.

[Jim Redelfs]

Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life down here.

[TimR]

Good point.

Do you know what is considered more important by the average American, the sun or the moon?

Overwhelmingly the response is the moon. It's a no-brainer. The moon is out at night, when it's dark and we really need the light. The sun is out when it's already day. Doh.

[Jim Redelfs]

Uh, I believe it is.

[Van Chocstraw]

It's supposed to be dark at night. That's how the planet was made.

[TKM]

Then why are headlights required in every state even where there is streetlighting? Should we turn off the headlights instead of the streetlights and save energy that way?

TKM

[Jeff Wisnia]

I think you must be referring to shortening the life of an inccandescent bulb by more frequent on-off cyscles and factoring the cost of bulb replacement into the picture.

I'll agree that was probably true back when electricity was relatively much cheaper than it is now, but I suspect what you learned back then might not be true in today's world. Jeff

[aemeijers]

Oh, headlights provide some extra illumination for the driver of the car, but the primary purpose they serve in areas with streetlights, is to make other cars able to see them, and realize they are moving.

-- aem sends...

[terry]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------=

--------------------------------------------------------- Not talking about street lights in any particular country, including America!

BTW this same item was posted on a news group populated by those from a European country.

Their response were, if anything more factual, giving examples of communities who do and do not turn off their street lights after certain times, at night. Along with generally sensible comments and references and quotes from newspaper articles about street light situations. Also some technical comments about street lighting techniques, retrofitting older and/or newer street lighting systems.

There was very little (or nothing) in the way of smart-alecky or nasty commnets.

An interesting debate however, from both the North American posting here and that other one.

BTW; a detail. Some communities install street and other lighting that minimizes light pollution upwards, directing a greater percentage of the light downwards and onto the areas where it is most effective. One benefit is to assist astronomical observations.

Thanks anyway to all who posted for throwing some light on the topic.

It's after 1.00 AM here and in this community with some 300-400 municipally financed street lights nothing moves, except maybe for the one motorist heading home after working late. And the lights will shine on until around 6.00 AM. Our electrcity is hydro generated so there is actually no change in pollution/global warming by the consumption of the electricity as would be the case with burning coal or other fossil fuel..

[Jim Redelfs]

I don't suppose you can reveal that newsgroup.

Oh, BAD us. Can't we all just get along?

I'd LOVE to read it - the measured, level-headed, polite thread from the continent widely known for universal tranquility and cooperation.

But no citation. Nice. :\\

Oh, please. :(

The only street, parking lot or other lighting fixture I have *EVER* seen that is NOT directing its output down is one that is DAMAGED - or directed at another, Earthbound item, i.e. flag, sign, etc.

The folks at Mount Palomar are grateful, I'm sure.

Regardless, the best astronomical observatory has been orbiting our planet for 18 years. Unfettered by earthly light "pollution" and atmospheric distortion (bring back CFCs for the benefit of ground-based observers), Hubble has peered further and deeper into the cosmos, mostly for the benefit of countless computer displays of cool wallpapers and slideshows.

...and those lights are PRECISELY WHY nothing moves.

It must be all the lattes, bean sprouts, tofu and other soy "food" that have caused so many formerly, presumably intelligent folks to buy into ALL the "green" hype. When it comes simply to "energy consumption", it's all bad. There is no consideration given to cause and effect, collateral benefit vs detriment and historical evidence of value.

Perhaps, but what about the poor, oppressed FISH? Has the dam operator installed "ladders" yet? Have they yet installed discharge water coolers so that the fish don't gather near the outlet because they prefer the warmth? What about the vaunted Snail Darter?

My local power utility recently had the nerve to reveal they were considering building another nuke. Progress is being made, albeit slowly, no thanks to the late operators (experimenters) of Chernobyl and Hanoi Jane's alarmist movie.

Not to worry, though: There will always be SOMETHING to keep environmentalist extremists mad and militant. Come to think of it, if they REALLY wished to curb CO2 emission, they'd shut up. Fat chance. Fortunately, there are few enough of them to make much difference in that regard.

[terry]

On Jan 9, 12:45=A0am, Red Green wrote: .

Good point Red Green. Reminds one of a TV item about making methane gas to run farm machnery from animal (and human) waste. Which in some places is used to make sufficient gas for some limited cooking. And some humans burn dried animal dung for cooking food. But this was on a bigger scale on a farm. A chemistry professor from a local university who was involved was asked "Which type of manure/waste is best for making the gas?". His answer was hardly 'scientific'! "Oh", he said. "Don't really know. But the worse it stinks the more gas it seems to make". :-) .