Why street lights on all night?

[terry]

Just before the recent holiday period some acquaintances who live in a partly developed area, the nearest house is some 200+ feet away across the street and slightly shielded by trees, had their house burgled. It occurred in late afternoon, it gets dark here around 4.0 PM at this time of year. The street lights would have been coming on around that time of day in mid-late December. One of the first things the thief or thieves did was turn on all the lights in the house and the driveway outside. Thus deceiving anyone who did happen to notice that the house was occupied. The alarm system operated and the homeowner was called by the alarm system company at work. But by the time that call was received and the owner arrived home to check they were long gone. All the lights in the house were still on!

[Clot]

I've been watching the threads on both groups. Decide for yourself; uk.d-i-y

[TKM]

Just before the recent holiday period some acquaintances who live in a partly developed area, the nearest house is some 200+ feet away across the street and slightly shielded by trees, had their house burgled. It occurred in late afternoon, it gets dark here around 4.0 PM at this time of year. The street lights would have been coming on around that time of day in mid-late December. One of the first things the thief or thieves did was turn on all the lights in the house and the driveway outside. Thus deceiving anyone who did happen to notice that the house was occupied. The alarm system operated and the homeowner was called by the alarm system company at work. But by the time that call was received and the owner arrived home to check they were long gone. All the lights in the house were still on!

So, from all the stories and opinios that we've heard about in this thread, sometimes light helps prevent robberies and burglaries and sometimes it doesn't. And, sometimes, it might move crime around. But what light seems to do for sure is to make people feel safer whether they are or not.

TKM

[TKM]

Indeed they are grateful as are the astronomers in Tucson, Hilo, San Jose and numerous other places. The lighting ordinances in those areas have kept the light pollution under control so the multi-million dollars invested in observatories, staff salaries and benefilts to the local economies are still paying off. Other places, where wasted light makes it impossible for astronomers to see the sky, they've packed up their telescopes and moved to darker areas in Chile or Argentina.

So, let's see if I've got this right. You are saying that we should continue to pay taxes to waste 30% of the light and energy from our public lighting systems (streets and parking areas) lighting up the underside of birds and airplanes so observatory investment goes off shore and so we get to enjoy glaring and excessive lighting.

TKM

[Jim Redelfs]

I am humbled and apologize for my presumptuous attitude.

Thank-you for the reference. I am downloading >99999 articles as I type. It must be a busy newsgroup. Thanks, again.

[Jim Redelfs]

If that is your interpretation of my words, more words are unlikely to change your mind. I am not prepared to challenge your claim of "30%" or even your definition of "waste". We obviously disagree.

I object mostly to the simplistic views of those that impugn that which has served us well for ages yet, only comparatively recently, declare that it is "bad" or "wasted" or now constitutes "pollution".

Perhaps it because I am probably older than most of the vocal environmentalists. I remember how things were and how far we have come. Most frustrating is the knowledge that, no matter how far we have come or how much we do currently in the realm of environmental protection and conservation, it isn't enough - and it will never be enough.

IOW, they would bitch if they were hung with a NEW rope.

[Red Green]

Oren wrote in news:tf7am4p79abubf2al5c96iusupapufvo8o@

4ax.com:

Maybe National Geographic can cut costs by doing a shoot on cannibals from there and pawning it off as some other country.

[Clot]

No problem, you are welcome. The traffic is comparable to this group. Strangely, whilst I can see your reply, my original message has not appeared for me!

[hallerb]

When you fly in and see all those parking lots lit up:)

The light illumniating the lot is doing its job

Waste light leaks and goes directly to the sky illuminating nothing.

Just thought I would point this out

[larry]

why not use the same type camera system that changes traffic signals when there are cars around. let the cameras turn on the street lights where there is activity, and off after an hour of no activity. they have a long view from pole top.

most of our local lots now use 70 watt sodium bulbs, each easily replaced at least ten 100 watt incandescent bulbs. lots that were on timers until 2am switching 6000 watts now use photocells to switch 420 watts dusk to dawn.

dallas made a substantial power cut just by replacing all the traffic signal bulbs with snap in led panels. and cut maintenance staff who's only job was continually replacing burned out signal bulbs. some intersection controllers and signals are now solar powered. all of the school zones are solar powered, including the radio links that eliminated the timing sync when they lost power. (no more school zone flashing at 2am)

-- larry / dallas

[hallerb]

(no more school

the high efficeny sodium and other lamps take a few minutes to come to full briteness.

by the time the sensor tripped light on vehicle would of passed.

plus theres liability issues if lamps fail for some reason....

[HeyBub]

Yeah, but those goddamn red-light camera flash bulbs can come on to full brightness in 0.001 seconds!

[Oren]

Yes and still cover the Voodoo Festival on Miami Beach, the plight of Cubans 1960-1980. And Haitians floating ashore, or cover an episode of the Last American Leaving Miami (please bring the flag).

[Jim Redelfs]

This was a not-so-rare occurrence in The Good Old Days of the dial-up BBS (Bulletin Board System) and FidoNet - a virtual predecessor to the internet we now take for granted.

It was not uncommon for a reply to arrive on a reader's computer BEFORE the original message.

This is why quoting became a convention and persists to this day.

It was the fact that, during the BBS days, the messages were moved around the country (and, later, the world) using dial-up LONG DISTANCE calls - all paid for out of the pocket of the hobbyist BBS "SysOp" (System Operator).

It was this fact that made EDITING ones quotes imperative and an absolute requirement. Bandwidth was expensive to the BBS operator who often provided access to these services for FREE. They paid the monthly fee for a dedicated, standalone phone line. Some even had multiple phone lines. In its heyday, MacNet Omaha (1:285/14) had TWO lines. It was an expensive hobby, indeed, while raising three young daughters. Mrs. MacWidow was MORE than patient during the seven years it operated.

[Jim Redelfs]

That doesn't matter.

That doesn't matter.

It STILL doesn't matter.

All that matters is that we FEEL GOOD just doing something - anything - to address the "crisis" of "wasted" energy and the global warming it causes.

When all the efforts toward conservation have been made, although that will never happen in the minds of too many, it still won't be enough to some. To the environmentalist extremist, the only truly good world is one where mankind no longer exists. Until that day, they won't be happy. Of course, they'll be gone, too, so it's moot point.

A growing society will consume increasing amounts of energy. There is NO WAY around that fact.

A society that no longer grows will collapse and be gone. There is no way around THAT fact.

Take your pick.

[Clot]

I'm not sure that I can understand this comment. Why not just replacement? Or, perhaps a minor reduction in population?

[Jim Redelfs]

I can't help you there, sorry.

Zero population growth or, worse, "negative growth" (declining, overall population) is the harbinger of the collapse of a society. It is historically well documented.

[sligoNoSPAMjoe]

Worse than that. AC incandescent lamps acturally turn on and off

60 times a second. :-)

[StepfanKing]

So you can see more of the street and not run pedestrians over. Lots of drunks out at all hours stumbling around.

Let them drink themselves to death. I don't wanna be responsible for running them down.

[sligoNoSPAMjoe]

Better would be to assure that your neighbors are not lit.