What have you learned in your old age that you feel should be taught to high school students?

It's true, a number of my friends got VD in the back of cars.

--scott

I don't know what most high schools near me do re: shop classes today, but there is one that has a program through which, every year, one or two residents of the town has their shed built by a bunch of teenagers.

I know this because a friend had her shed built in this manner and the teacher is also the guy that services my furnace.

Each year, the teacher finds someone that wants a shed built. The class includes everything from site planning to permitting to purchasing to installation. It even includes some "general contracting" whereby the class finds subs for the excavation, electrical, or whatever else that isn't safe/allowed for them to do. However, they are on-site when that work is being done so they can see what is involved.

Even tghe Chrysler lugnuts on one side was left handed and the other right handed. Not sure if they are now or not as that was back around

Now almost all new cars require very little for the first 50 to 100 thousand miles other than an oil change every 5000 t0 10,000 miles. No more than I drive now it is just changed at the state inspection time.

That's where I'm leaning, which means the entire class can be taught inside the classroom like most of the other classes are.

I would think there should be a chapter each on each "thing" kids need to know about (perhaps homes, vehicles, measurements, debugging, PCs, etc.).

In each chapter I would think it could dive down into the "systems" involved such as the cooling system for a car, or the plumbing system for a house or the electrical system for a computer.

Repair starts with debug. Debug ends with isolation of the failed component. But debug starts with understanding the systems & isolation of the failure.

Without understanding of the system, there's no repair possible unless we teach the kids to just throw parts at the problem.

Admittedly, a _lot_ of cars are fixed by people throwing parts at them! :)

My first Chrysler was a New Yorker which, as I recall, had reverse threaded lug bolts on one side, but normally threaded lug bolts on the other.

Nobody told me this. After doing the one side, I wrenched off two or three before I realized "something" was very wrong on the other side.

There were no "warning labels" in those days. :)

This is a good observation, where we could add a systems approach to how basic electronics work also (sci.electronics.repair).

It's always depressing when I hear people say that.

Every single time I hear this I think of people who say they got cold from being cold. It sounds like it would make sense. But it's dead wrong.

I hear these uneducated misconceptions in all sorts of related things, such as people who claim that high test gas gives them better performance in their pinto.

A car, like the human body or a home or even something as simple as a pair of shoes hasn't fundamentally changed one bit since it's initial invention.

Almost _everything_ you learned about cars in the 40's applies to cars in the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's, 2010's, 2020's, and beyond.

The drive train is the same. The cooling system is the same. The heating and air conditioning systems are the same. The tires/wheels/valves/braking systems are the same.

Just about everything is the same.

What's different then?

We could probably list what's different on a short list but certainly the spark control and timing has changed (anyone want a used dwellmeter unused for decades?)

The fuel delivery has changed at the back end more so than the front end (pumps moved from the engine into the gas tank but that's not a big deal).

Mostly what happened was stuff was added - but not very much of it.

Obviously the pollution control system was _added_ (e.g., EGR systems and catalytic converters and oxygen sensors).

Also the electrical system has added components which are black boxes but which don't change in any meaningful way how the car works.

It could be an interesting topic of what has _fundamentally_ changed such that what you learned in the fifties is no longer useful - because I suspect almost everything we learned about cars & home repair in the fifties is still completely applicable today.

Anyone who says otherwise, IMHO, didn't learn anything way back when. So, of course, if they learned nothing, then none of nothing is usable.

I agree with those who would say not only have cars remained essentially unchanged from what we learned about them in the fifties, but in almost all cases they're even _easier_ to maintain now for a huge number of reasons.

We have better scanners now (such as OBDII). We have better DIYs now (such as those on YouTube). Some systems are far more reliable (such as the fuel & spark ignition). etc.

Take the cooling system for example as a critical system which has remained essentially unchanged. What has changed over the years? Not much right? a. The system used to be open and now it's closed (no big deal) b. The thermostat used to be mechanical and now some are controlled c. The fluid used to be green and now we have blue & pink to deal with d. That fluid used to be a concentrate and now it's often pre diluted e. The tank ends (and nipples) are often plastic instead of brass etc.

Those are all minor differences, right?

(One difference I remember is crimping corroded pipes inside the radiator which I don't think anyone does today. Is that due to aluminum over brass?)

It's a good question to ponder though. What has _changed_ since the cars of the fifties and sixties we learned on?

I agree that cars haven't changed mechanically all that much over time. However it's an interesting question to ask what _has_ changed over time.

What's new now in a car of the 2000's that didn't exist in the 1950s?

My Karmann Ghia was like that to. Theoretically, it is a good idea but in practice, never was a problem having both sides the same.

Primarily Computers! Tons of computerized systems. Started with electronic ignition in the mid 70's and they kept adding more electronic systems.

I own 11 cars now, from the 60s/70's on up, and the only one that still has points would be my '68 Ford Galaxie. I can work on all of them, but the newest is right at the end of being too modern. Up until I bought the 2005 Hyundai Elantra, the newest was a '94 Geo Metro. You can't get more simple than the Geo for a 90's car that's easy to wrench on.

Here is the issue that I have. There are too many things that have changed. Look how tightly everything is packed into the engine compartment. Nothing is easy to get to. My mother's newer Buick has electronic power steering. How the heck does that work?

Many car makes are using the computerized systems to their advantage to prevent backyard mechanics. Some newer cars like BMW's have to be reprogrammed at a dealer when the battery is taken out. They just don't work when connected back up. I was told that service can cost $400, and it forces you to visit a dealer to buy a battery.

I've never broken an open end but I approach Harbor Freight stuff with caution. I stocked the tool tube on my V-Strom. They're a step up from the Suzuki tools but if someone rips off the tube I'm only out about $40. They are not the tools I use for working on the bike at home.

The Toyota manual is pretty boring. Change the oil every 5000 miles and rotate the tires. The 2007 version said to change the antifreeze at

I bought the car in March of 01, CE (Covid Era) on the day this county locked down. I even called the dealer to make sure they would be open that Saturday. I noticed the odometer yesterday and it was up to 11000 something. The car will last forever at this rate.

The basic method of making power and getting it to the wheel for motion is still the same but so much more sophisticated. So, you can get a lesson in physics and mechanics but what else is of much value?

Is more than one out of 1000 ever going to change a fuel pump in the tank? Those that have serious interest in the mechanics, like in the past, will learn how to do it. I used to do 100% of my car repair and maintenance. In the past 15 years or so, most I've done is add windshield wiper fluid.

Is it really all that "much more sophisticated" such that you can no longer understand it or fix it the way you used to understand and fix it before?

Take the basic method of "making power" for example.

It's a four-stroke engine (in most cases), just like it was before, isn't it? It still has a spark plug (at least one per cylinder usually). It still has a spark that ignites the fuel doesn't it? It still has a stoichoimetric ratio of fuel to air doesn't it? Even the fuel is the same fuel essentially (more detergents, less lead perhaps, but it's essentially the same stuff as before isn't it)? It still has valves (maybe more than before, but they do the same things). It still has rings, doesn't it? It still has a crankshaft, doesn't it?

As for getting that power to the wheels, it's true that many cars today have the engine turned sideways, but even then it's still the same method of driving the wheels as before only with one fewer change in direction for most cars and with a couple added differentials for the more robust vehicles.

If you learned how the cooling system works in the fifties, how is it different today?

If you learned how the engine worked in the fifties, how is it different today?

If you learned how the starting & charging systems worked in the fifties, how is it different today?

I'm not advocating kids learn how to repair fuel systems in high school so much as they learn how the fuel storage & delivery & vapor recovery system works.

Same with the cooling system, the starting and charging system, the suspension system, the drive train, and even the instrumentation (for example, don't you think they should know the temperature gauge is buffered?).

Everything they will ever need to do on a car follows from that understanding.

Luckily with fuel injected cars and with electronic spark control, and with cleaner gasolines, and with radial tires, and with corrosion resistant oils and coolants, and with the almost universal advent of disc brakes, etc., the maintenance on a car is easier now than ever before, isn't it?

On principle I've never been inside a harbor freight store (or Walmart) but I do lately lament the loss of easy access to the Sears stores because all my old tools are Craftsman tools.

What has replaced Craftsman for decent quality for the homeowner nowadays?

Famous last words... Unless there's a specific scan code, is it the MAP, the TPS, or the IAP all of which test out as barely within acceptable limits. A friend was driven to drink, not that it was a long drive, by an atmospheric pressure sensor VW saw fit to conceal in the door pillar for reasons unknown.

I've actually done things that ware impossible. One was creating a webpage that has a digital clock that has the right time and runs with NO client-side script (JavaScript).

Craftsman, perhaps?

As my generation dies, their children sell nice vintage USA made SnapOn for pennies.