Ceiling lampholders porcelain vs plastic

[TimR]

The rec room in our basement has those simple ceiling lampholders with a pull chain, just screw in a bulb. You can get the bigger decorative bulbs or just go with normal light bulbs.

I needed to replace a couple this week. The big box store had plastic for a bit over $1 and porcelain for almost $6.

I went with the porcelain to match what had already been there. But the Leviton I bought at the big box place really looks flimsy inside, not near as well made as the originals. And obviously they are fragile, as one of the boxes had the fixture cracked in pieces when I opened it. I had thought i was getting better quality, but now I'm not so sure, the plastic might be as good or better.

Is there a source for better? I'm not sure it matters much on something like this, but if I can pay a little more and do the job once that's the way to go. The old ones had removable sockets and if I could have found one to match (Eagle brand) I would have kept the old base and just changed out the internals.

[trader_4]

You could try a local electrical supply house.

[Marilyn Manson]

I'm not sure why you need to replace your lamp holders, but I use "Spin lights" in closets, basements, etc.

They come in various models. With a pull chain for direct replacement or with motion sensors (leave the original pull chain fixture on) or with "nothing" (no chain or sensor) for fixtures that are controlled by a switch. Just spin the fixture into your existing lamp holders in place of the bulb. In most cases, they hide the lamp holder for a slightly better look.

On multiple occasions, I've upgraded basements that had individual pull chain fixtures spread throughout by wiring all the fixtures in series and adding a switch. Then I screw in the Spin Lights.

For closets I often use the ones with the motion sensors.

[bud--]

If you are talking about a wholesale house used by electricians, they are not likely to appreciate small orders from amateurs (except maybe Ralph M who has an amateur licence).

[Marilyn Manson]

I, an "amateur", buy most of my electrical supplies at the parts counters of

2 different lighting stores, where lots of contractors/electricians shop. Small orders, sometime single parts.

Not only have the counter guys always been extremely helpful and courteous, it's not uncommon for someone on my side of the counter to toss out a suggestion or two as I'm asking questions about my current project.

[Jim Joyce]

You wire those lights in series? I would have expected parallel.

[Marilyn Manson]

You are correct sir. Brain fart.

Bottom line, all lights come on at once instead of having to pull chains as you walk across the room.

Thanks for the correction.

[Jim Joyce]

No worries. Thought I was about to learn a new trick. Some kind of low voltage lighting. ;-)

[TimR]

I replaced two. On one, the pull chain stopped turning it on. The switch broke. On the other, the pull chain snapped off, leaving it on, which turned out to be a blessing.

Until I took the first one down I didn't realize that the socket comes out of that style lampholder. There is a ring that screws in from the bottom that holds it together. The big box stores did not have any of that style available.

Also they didn't have any sockets that would fit in the old lampholders, which would have been my preferred option.

I ended up being glad one light was broken in the on position. The breaker for the basement lights was correctly labeled but it only fed 3 of the 4 ceiling lights in that room. It took considerable trial and error to find the breaker that fed that light, and it fed no other circuits in the basement, but one circuit upstairs that had one ceiling light and one receptacle on it. Weird.

Yes some people will change a fixture hot, and I've done it on a rental when i couldn't get to the breaker, but normally it's not good practice.

[Marilyn Manson]

Now that the repair is done, go grab a few spin lights and try them out. You can always return them if you don't like them.

Typically better light than a bare bulb and certainly better looking. Being LED, they'll last a very long time.

[bud--]

I was at a real wholesale house in PA. The sold supplies like 500' spools of #12 green with a yellow stripe, 4" EMT, 250MCM wire. An amateur was buying quite a bit of stuff to electrify a pole barn. Looked Amish, but musta been Mennonite or something. At about the end of the list he wanted a 400A circuit breaker. There are several VERY obvious questions he couldn't answer (just one of which the wholesale house might not ask is whether there was capacity to add that much load). I wasn't around to see if he bought anything.

[Marilyn Manson]

FWIW, the places I by from sell the same types of material. Just because they are located at the back of a lighting store (or should I say "design center") doesn't mean that they just sell 14-2 Romex, 3 prong receptacles, and plastic switch plates. ;-)

When I say "back of a lighting store" I merely mean that they are located in the same building. Separate parking lot, separate entrance, etc. i.e. real wholesale houses, just owned and operated by the same company as the lighting store. There are 2 of them near me. One location also has a kitchen & bath showroom and a wholesale plumbing supply area. They too let the general public buy at the counter, it's just that you don't "shop". You more or less have to come in with a plan/list, but they are more than willing to help out and offer advice.

[Ed Pawlowski]

On 12/29/2021 11:25 PM, Marilyn Manson wrote: .

Most are very good like that. Best not to go at 8 AM when the pros are getting what they need for the job that day and want to get going.

[gfretwell]

They are usually OK if you know what you want and don't ask them stupid questions but you are going to pay full retail. A lot just depends on who is working the counter that day. Your wife might have better luck than you tho if you want the answer to questions ;-)

[gfretwell]

The only suppliers who are pricks about dealing with homeowners seem to be HVAC counter stores and they say it is to protect their trades. Screen cage wholesale shops can be bad about that too. Most of the others (electrical, plumbing etc) seem OK around here. We do have one shop that sells patio aluminum to homeowners but they are only slightly cheaper than Home Depot. They do have a full selection tho. (Patio, Pan Roof, Structural and supplies). They will also do pan to order.

[Marilyn Manson]

I don't mind paying full retail if I can get exactly what I want, which isn't always the case at the home centers.

[Scott Lurndal]

I used to sell all of that stuff.

400A @240VAC isn't that much, really. The house I grew up in had 400A (two 200A services) to support resistance heat in the mid-70's during the first energy crisis.

Although the point about the system capacity is germane, a neighbor recently upgraded their service entrance panel from 100A to 200A - the electric company made them drop to 125A due to size of the buried feeder from the transformer (AWG #2).

[Clare Snyder]

I could only go to 125 due to my feeders. Would have cost me 8 grand to update to 200

[bud--]

The lighting "design centers" sound like retail front ends for a wholesale house. And a display center for light fixtures for customers. Last I heard the markup on light fixtures was very high. Why wouldn't electricians use the wholesale house?

So go back to the start.

The OP goes to an electrical wholesale house. He asks for information on what is available in PPCs (porcelain pull chains). Hopefully he doesn't want to see them, because they are not likely near the counter and may be boxed. He orders 2 PPCs. The counter guy knows where a vast array of supplies are in the warehouse, like 250 MCM wire and Erickson couplings. He picks up a couple PPCs, He invoices them (much more detailed than Menards because businesses probably want the detail). He processes cash or a credit card. (The checkout person at Menards doesn't have any particular skills.) The wholesale house charges retail. The wholesale house probably loses money on the transaction.

I don't think the wholesale houses I go to want that business. On the other hand I think the electrical wholesale houses I go to all have a minimum order - expensive PPCs. And at least 2 wholesale places I have been to require an account to buy anything.

If you seem to know what you are doing and have a reasonable size order you are probably OK.

The OP, I don't think so,

[bud--]

The buyer appears to have been adding a pole barn to an existing, probably farm, system. Else why would he just want a 400A breaker. IMHO

400A increase in capacity is a lot. But maybe he just wanted to replace a 200A breaker with a 400A one. What could possibly go wrong.

Your 400A service likely had no 400A service disconnect but 2 200A service disconnects, one in each panel.

If the actual increase in capacity was 200A, and a building was added to the electrical system, the NEC likely requires a recalculation of the service size. Back to the wholesale house - the counter guy is going to want the manufacturer and part number of the 400A breaker. The buyer probably didn't know a manufacturer and certainly didn't have a part number. You can't just stick a 400A breaker anywhere. And the counter guy is not going to engineer the system.

My guess is the intended supply was not safe, and was not possible as imagined.