Wes Groleau wrote in news:kdvrdl$b37$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:
arcs between the
I would expect an *arc fault* breaker to trip. But a standard circuit breaker may or may not trip -- it depends on how much current the arc is carrying.
Might not cause a fire.
Might just cause insulation failure with contact from wire to metal parts. You might only electrocute someone.
Or you might just have the fixture fail in a relatively short time.
Good idea.
And another great idea - the circuit rating is actually "half the actual limit". You can replace the 15A breaker on the circuit with a 30A one. Nothing will happen. (Where is the proof otherwise.)
And if fixture insulation fails and wires short you might not even have the inconvenience of a breaker trip.
An electrician has "seen many overheated light fixtures". A couple other people have seen damage from overlamping. I have seen damage.
But go ahead. You may win the Darwin Award.
Right on. The rants about government control are more than tiresome. In the case of light bulbs, the legislation to phase them out started with the energy advocates. They went to the Congressional staff of the House and Senate Energy Committees and said that they wanted to regulate certain inefficient light bulbs so that more efficient bulbs would be used. The advocates had plenty of support - some utilities, other energy conservation groups and lots of people who thought saving energy is a good idea. They organized and took their message to Congress. Then Congress held hearings, asked folks, including the light bulb manufacturers, what they thought and the legislation was written. It must have been a fair process because no one was happy with the results. I haven't found anyone involved who got what they wanted. Then, the legislation went to Congress, was approved by both houses and signed by President Bush in 2007. It kicked in 5 years later - in 2012 with the phase out of the 100 watt bulb - and all of a sudden the critics woke up and started complaining about government control. Now, with the free market working, more bulb choices available than ever before at about any price range that you want and with energy being saved with all of them, I wonder just what the fuss is about and where critics were when the laws were being debated.
Tomsic
Before you adopt your made-up "half the actual limit" idea, why don't you read the UL Standard on the subject which details the test procedures and assumptions that UL uses. It's UL Standard 8750 and applies to permanently-mounted light fixtures. Any electrical inspector will have a copy or you can buy it from UL or CSA since it's harmonized with Canada too.
Tomsic
I take that to mean you have no examples of an insurance company denying a claim because someone put in a bulb that was too large and you were just spreading FUD.
Well, I posted where I thought I read it. Why don't you look it up? At the very least you'll learn something about the hazards of old wiring in homes and there are some nifty pictures too. But remember that UL is a non-government organization started by insurance companies ("underwriters"), so the UL sticker is an indication of what they think is safe according to their own standards. In an argument - or court case -between a home owner and an insurance company about any electrical product that electrocuted someone or started a fire, who do you think would have the best chances of winning if the product didn't have a UL sticker?
Tomsic
You are blessed with luck and good fortune; but I hope your insurance agent reads your post and figures out who you are because I don't want you in my risk group. And, test your smoke detectors regularly.
Tomsic
My mistake. The lighting fixture standard is UL-1598. The LED standard is
8750.Tomsic
B-b-b-but communism, Obama, they're taking our rights away!
I say, screw in those curly Q, mind reading, light bulbs and surrender. After a few years you won't even notice.
I found that 293-page "Luminaires UL 1598" standard here:
Reading that section over and over, I am not illuminated as to what excess safety limits are in a 60 Watt rating. I can see it has everything to do with temperature - since Clause 19.14.1.3 appears to be all about the temperature test box; but I can't really tell what the safety factor is from reading this document.
Does someone with more acumen than I have insight into where in that document it spells out the safety factor inherent in the standard?
I followed your advice and found shorter CFL bulbs.
The CFL is almost cool to the touch so it's a good solution that fits the problem set without too many compromises.
Huh??? What logic? Where did government control come in play here? What does light bulbs have to do with cell phones and TVs?
Last time I checked, it was govt that banned incandescent like bulbs that they didn't like. The had a problem with people being free to choose. It bothered the powers that be greatly that I might choose a simple 100 watt bulb for my outdoor shed. You said that's a good thing, because it leads to more choices. So, why not ban cell phones and LCD TV's and see what great innovation that leads to? It's been big soft drinks, salt, light bulbs, the right of smokers to have a cigar dinner at a restaurant in their own seperate room. Right now it's guns. See how you like it when the tell you that soylent green is the only acceptable food. Sounds like you're ready to chow down. As for me, just leave me free to choose. See how you like it when they come for your big
I'll never get used to CFLs, they suck on several levels. The ONLY thing that they have going for them is that they are more efficient than incandescents.
The good news is that by the time recently-purchased CFLs start going, LEDs will be widely available and affordable.
I'm using a 9W LED bulb in my bedside lamp; it was on sale at Lowe's for $10 or so last year. I have no complaints with it at all, although I don't remember seeing CRI specs on the packaging (one place where CFLs tend to fall down unless you get expensive ones that you're not likely to find in retail stores.) It is dimmable, which I've yet to see acceptably demonstrated with CFLs even ones advertised as such. It also is at full brightness in a second or so as opposed to a minute or so for a CFL. If brighter LED bulbs were available for a similar price (and I expect that they will be in a few years) I'd see no need to ever buy another CFL again.
nate
trical arcs between the
my bedroom light failed this way. I awoke to go to bathroom and realized my pillow must of fallen to the floor so i turned the light switch on as i walked out of room, figuring my eyes would have time to adust by the time i got back......
however i saw a super brite flash, turned the switch off and didnt get any more sleep.
the 50 year old wires insulation was crumbling and started arcing to the fixture, the breaker didnt trip but a nice shower of sparks came down on the bed.....
needless to say i replaced all the fixtures in the house most were showing the same detoriation
Maybe so, but completely irrelevant.
Toilets.
As I said earlier, it's not about guns or anything from the list above. It's all about *control*.
"You are sheep! Shut up and act like it!"
The problem I have with some of the new alternatives (e.g. CFL, LED) is that they don't respond well to the use of conventional dimmers. A 100 watt bulb might be used full-on a small fraction of the time (i.e. usually dimmed) and hence use much less than 100 watts on average. Replacing it with a non-dimmable alternative might actually use a comparable amount of energy, or even in rare instances more energy, with less flexibility.
We have a mix of lighting technologies in our house -- old fashioned incandescent, halogen, fluorescent tube, CFL, LED, and even neon -- each chosen for its particular attributes of light output, energy consumption, dimmability, color, configuration and mood.
take your guns. Our Federal government is too broke and mired down in its own dysfunction to go around kicking in doors and smashing light bulbs, Elliott Ness style.
The cost of reasonable regulations will be far less than the societal cost of scores of dead children.
Polls consistently show that people
bulbs, except for special-use types (i.e. rough service, floodlights, etc.).
supplies hold out. A couple boxes of them will likely last you the rest of your life, and your kids will be used to CFL's so they won't care.
Fanaticism abounds on the Right.
I put a halogen on a dimmer once. It appeared to dim and work fine, although I decided the dimmer got near zero use so i replaced the dimmer with a regular switch and installed CFLs
Getting rid of incandescents saves power and avoids power companys building more power plants that cost big bucks and would impact every rate payer.......
The LED bulbs in new RVs look really great
What will NOT happen is the manufacturer of the lamp being found responsible for the fire due to a faulty product. Use the product other than as directed and there is no warranty - and no liability on the part of the manufacturer / seller.
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